[Bug 114465] New: Wish: simpler entry of tags

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------- Additional Comments From mikmach wp pl  2007-11-13 09:32 -------
>  --> (http://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=22037&action=view)
> attempt of a mock-up of a possible layout for tags collections


Don't like it :(

I would prefer drop-down menu on top of tag tree with filters of tags
and positions:

All (default)
Col1
Col2
--------------------
Add collection...
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------- Additional Comments From arnd.baecker web de  2007-11-13 09:46 -------
> Don't like it :(


Fine with me, we have to find the optimal solution ... ;-)

The drop-down menu is indeed another option.
However, I am not sure what happens if there are
many collections (I can easily envisage about 20-30).
How does one quickly change between them?

The problem is, that if a collection has too many entries,
one has to scroll, which takes a lot of time.
Therefore one has to change quickly between collections,
and that's why the mock-up had several collections visible
at once.

So my main point is: tagging should be as fast as possible.
Scrolling around takes a lot of time and should therefore
be avoided. Having several tags collections
displayed at the same time would reduce scrolling ...
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------- Additional Comments From mikmach wp pl  2007-11-13 12:24 -------
Still think it could be done simpler. Eg. add history to search in tags
and properly organize and name your tags. Since searching is limiting
number of tags but include subbranches it would work IMO as a charm.

Just click on dropdown menu in search box, choose Persons and you have
all tags in Persons branch, choose GeoGermany and branch with all names
of geographical locations in Germany, etc.

Additional windows (subwindows in fact) will have to be even smaller
than original tags window so there will be always scrolling
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------- Additional Comments From arnd.baecker web de  2007-11-13 12:41 -------
Adding a history to search in tags is a very good idea
(where would one put that? Another button?)

Concerning the additional windows, they need not be smaller,
if they are at a different place as suggested in the mockup in c#17.
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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-11-13 12:50 -------
Arnd,

>Adding a history to search in tags is a very good idea
>(where would one put that? Another button?)

It's already done : look "Recent tags" on "Caption and Tags" side bar... This is the history...

Gilles
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------- Additional Comments From arnd.baecker web de  2007-11-13 12:55 -------
Gilles, the "Recent tags" is a different history.
What Mikolaj suggested, if I understood it correctly,  
is to have a history for the entries used in the search field
(even though I start to wonder
how easy that would be, because it is an incremental search box,
i.e., when should one add the text to the history?).
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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-11-13 13:08 -------
Arnd,

...an auto-completion mode in fact. If yes, KLineEdit widget used provide aready this feature, and of it's... not enabled by default...

KDE3 API :

http://api.kde.org/3.5-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKLineEdit.html

KDE4 API:

http://api.kde.org/4.0-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKLineEdit.html

Code is in :

http://websvn.kde.org/branches/extragear/kde3/graphics/digikam/libs/imageproperties/imagedescedittab.cpp?revision=718244&view=markup

... in constructor, you have "d->tagsSearchEdit = new KLineEdit(tagsSearch);"

This object do not have completion enable... If you want to try, it's easy...

Gilles
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------- Additional Comments From Julien.Narboux inria fr  2007-12-13 10:58 -------
IMHO a few things which could be easily implemented to ease tagging could be:

- allow to tick the currently selected tag using a shortcut (for instance using the key 'space', for the time being 'space' move to the next picture).

- display the list of recent tags not as a drop down menu as it is done now but as a displayed list of the 12 most recent tags and dynamically assign the shortcuts F1 F2 F12 to assign this tag to the currently selected pictures.

Julien
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------- Additional Comments From kde-2 dotancohen com  2007-12-13 11:15 -------
>- allow to tick the currently selected tag using a
> shortcut (for instance using the key 'space', for
> the time being 'space' move to the next picture).

There could be a toggle switch on the toolbar for switching the space bar function. Actually, instead of ticking the tag, it might tick the photo, similar to BrilliantPhoto. In BrilliantPhoto one would tick some pictures, then apply the tags to the selection. It is very similar in nature to selecting photos, however not as 'delicate', in the sense that one does not need to hold down Shift/Ctrl to tick multiple photos.

>- display the list of recent tags not as a drop
> down menu as it is done now but as a displayed
> list of the 12 most recent tags and dynamically
> assign the shortcuts F1 F2 F12 to assign this tag
> to the currently selected pictures.

I like this. I really like this. I really really really like this idea.
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------- Additional Comments From bug christianmayer de  2008-01-05 13:41 -------
> - display the list of recent tags not as a drop down menu as it is done
> now but as a displayed list of the 12 most recent tags and dynamically assign
> the shortcuts F1 F2 F12 to assign this tag to the currently selected pictures.

A dynamically changing list is bad as you always have to look up the current assignment.

But the basic idea is great!

So please implement a way for the user to easily assign (and reassign) the F-keys to any tags.
E.g: Show in the tag list behind each tag that has an assignment the current assignment. When a tag is selected and a F-Key is pressed this tag will be assigned to the pressed F-key. (Default action could show an pop up that asks if the user wants to reassign Fxy from tag foo to tag bar; using Shift-Fxy will directly assign the key to the tag without the popup)
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------- Additional Comments From gandalf.lechner esi ac at  2008-01-05 14:23 -------
I doubt that a list of 12 tags assigned to F-keys would really make tagging much simpler, since you would need to assign tags to keys and struggle with other programs for the control over these keys (for example F1).

In my opinion the best suggestion I have heard about so far is that described in #9, which resembles KMails nice "move mail" feature: Pressing a key, let's say "t" for "tag", brings up the list of tags. There you can select tags by either navigating with the cursor keys or - preferably - typing the beginning of the keyword and using the autocompletion feature. The prime advantage of this procedure over the current state of digikam is that you don't have to use the mouse anymore, which will speed up tagging considerably.

Just compare how fast you can rate a picture with the Strg+X keys in comparison to how fast you can attach a tag to it. I think tagging will only be fast if it is possible to use the keyboard only. To get an idea of how this works, start kmail and press "m" for moving mail to subfolders. If other people like to work with the preselected list of tags and the F-keys, this could be done as well - In fact, it might be a good idea to have different methods of tagging for different tastes.

But the procedure described here should be easy to implement since all the functionality like navigation of the taglist and autocompletion is already there. All that is needed is a hotkey to switch to the taglist such that it works as fast as in KMail ...
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------- Additional Comments From x3ri7yz02 sneakemail com  2008-01-05 17:40 -------
I'd like to add another vote for the Kmail-style keyboard entry of tags with AutoComplete.  F1-F12 limits you to 12 or less tags (obviously!) and the dynamic assignment sounds like more hassle than it's worth.  (Where would current assignments be displayed to the user?)

The autocomplete idea is simple but very powerful - and copes with any number of tags. Note how the KMail widget refines the list of possible matches as you type - this is a great way of making even complex tag hierarchies easier to use.  It also doesn't preclude people using the mouse if they prefer.
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------- Additional Comments From bug christianmayer de  2008-01-05 17:52 -------
> x3ri7yz02 sneakemail com  2008-01-05 17:40
> F1-F12 limits you to 12 or less tags (obviously!) and the dynamic assignment
> sounds like more hassle than it's worth.  (Where would current assignments be
> displayed to the user?)

F1-F12 are only shortcuts to the (currently) most often used keys.
A way to easily assign the keys was described by me in #27. There I also described an easy way to show the user the current assignment.

But I also agree that this shouldn't be the only way to assign tags.
(I do like the idea of just typing the beginning and working with an auto complete - the drawback here is that you must know all tags, or at least their beginning. So please add both ways ;)
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------- Additional Comments From kde-2 dotancohen com  2008-01-05 21:30 -------
I would also like to see both ways (F1-F12 && type-autocomplete). It should not be difficult to implement, and it would fit most workflows. There should be no problem with global F-key conflicts, as other KDE apps already utilize the F-keys, such as Kate, with no problems. Global F-key shortcuts are usually combined with a modifier key such as CTRL or ALT.
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------- Additional Comments From ljplug fastmail fm  2008-02-28 04:44 -------
Another vote for keystroke tagging with some form of autocompletion. The current adaptive search works nicely, making it even more of shame to have to grab the mouse in mid operation. ;-)

For me the basics would be 1) a single keystroke command that puts the cursor in the tag search box; and 2) once the search (as currently implemented) had narrowed to a single tag, that tag could be applied with the enter key.

In addition, implementation of shell-style autocompletion would allow zeroing in on forgotten nested tags, without backspacing.

If the above is how kmail filtering works, another vote for that please.
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------- Additional Comments From gandalf.lechner esi ac at  2008-02-28 10:55 -------
I agree with #32. The desribed behaviour is basically how the kmail filtering works: One key to open the tag (i.e. mail folder structure) list, typing letters narrows down the list, and assigning is down with enter. Moreover, you can navigate the filtered list with the cursor keys, which can sometimes be faster than typing until you reach a unique tag. In any case, it is much faster than the currently used keyboard-and-mouse solution.

I'm not sure what is meant by "shell-style autocompletion" in #32, though. The kmail behaviour amounts to a build-in autocompletion: Once the letters you typed uniquely determine a single tag, this is the only tag left in the list.
So I really hope we will see this tagging mechanism, possible as an option, in a future version of digikam.
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------- Additional Comments From ljplug fastmail fm  2008-02-29 00:10 -------
> ------- Additional Comments From gandalf.lechner esi ac at  2008-02-28 10:55 -------
>
> I'm not sure what is meant by "shell-style autocompletion" in
> #32, though. The kmail behaviour amounts to a build-in
> autocompletion: Once the letters you typed uniquely determine a
> single tag, this is the only tag left in the list. So I really
> hope we will see this tagging mechanism, possible as an option,
> in a future version of digikam.


Me too. My request for "shell-style autocompletion" would be of
secondary importance to what you described (but really nice :-)).
I was too cryptic in my description.

Scenario: The user has a large number of tags nested in a
hierarchy. For example, one high level tag is "colour" which
contains a "blue" which contains a "cyan". There are numerous
other tags at each level in the hierarchy. The user doesn't
remember "cyan" is a tag, but she/he does remember "colour".

To find and select "cyan" the user should be able to type
"colo..." [autocomplete occurs, and "colour" and the nested tags
below it are displayed in the Found Tags window]. If the user hit
the enter key, "colour" would be assigned to the selected image.  
Instead, the the user types "bl.." [autocompletes..]. On seeing
"cyan" in the now-refined list, she/he types "cy.. " [another
autocompletion].

In short, this would allow systematic navigation to forgotten
tags in a large hierarchy, assuming the tags are logically
organized (we all do that, right :-)

Currently, a user can do this kind of navigation but it is
clunky. One can find "cyan" by typing "colour" etc., but one
needs to backspace to get rid of "colour" in the text entry box,
then start to type "cyan". To me it would be more intuitive, and
consistent with widely used autocompletion of directory/file
structures (as in shells), if the behaviour I described occurred.

On the same note, it would be great if the history of recent tags
would appear, and could be scrolled through, simply by hitting
the arrow-up or arrow-down key when the cursor is in the search
filter box. This would again be like bash shell history behaviour
and so very intuitive (at least for me..). Currently we have
access to recent tags using the button. Great feature, but it
seems to demand unnecessary use of the mouse. Could the arrow
keys be remapped to the tag history when the cursor is in the
entry box?

Digikam is really great! I should add that it is the only KDE
programme I regularly use (nothing against KDE, just my inertia
and history) so my suggestions may be counter to standard KDE
behaviour.
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------- Additional Comments From lehrkampj bellsouth net  2008-02-29 05:23 -------
Tags seem to be one of the biggest issues I have had with digikam.  I have used picasa in the past and the tagging of images in digikam seems extremely difficult.  

The autocomplete suggestion above would be a great improvement.

The remainder of this comment is as much question as comment.

If I understand correctly from reading the IIM and XMP specifications and what information I have been able to deduce online, the tags are saved in the metadata as single "keywords" in the IMM which will translate to the dc:subject in the XMP, and the parent-child relationship of the tags is internal to the database in digikam and is not stored in the metadata? (question).

If I am incorrect in the last assumption let me know and the remainder of this comment is moot.

I have been using picasa in the past and picasa has no such parent-child relationship with the tags.  A single tag text or keyword is "unique".  The tags can be assigned to any file at any time with no relationship.  This in itself can be a major issue as the number of tags increase, up to literally thousands of keywords.  The one saving grace of picasa was already discussed here, it has the capability of allowing a typed field to assign the tags, and also to filter by tag.  This still creates a problem with different tags being assigned if the text is entered differently, for example issues with plural words and words that start with the same first few letters.

I work with 20K+ files.  With multiple tags on each file, the tags are impossible to manage.

I was hoping that the parent-child set up of the tags panels would assist me with this issue.  

I'm not sure I can see where the flexibility to set up the parent-child relationships in the tags is really useful other than as a means to organize and manage the tags. In most cases the tags I set up are a descriptive piece of information in itself.  For example I have multiple albums and a single tag, say something like "new york", is descriptive in itself.  I may have a album of photos containing photos of an event that takes place in new york, and another album with scenic photos of new york.  New york as a tag is descriptive in itself, and with the combination of tags for filtering I can get to the files that I need efficiently.

With the current database set up, this requires me to either set up a unique parent-child relationship for these photos with new york being a child in each, or completely ignoring the parent-child relationship completely and just have a huge list of individual tags, like picasa, that are impossible to manage.

One of the issues I ran into was I "moved" one of my photo collections on disk outside of digikam.  When digikam reloaded the collection, any of the keywords that did not have a complete parent-child relationship (which, ooops, as I was used to using picasa, many did not) created duplicate keywords, outside of the parent-child relationships I had already set up, so I have duplicate tags (keywords) everywhere.

Allowing the tags to be unique, is one possible solution I might suggest.  

If there is a use for the parent-child relationships that I am missing, possibly just allowing a flag, internally within the program settings and/or tied to the keywords in database, to flag the tags as being unique or not.  

Allowing tags to be unique, when files are imported into digicam, it would find existing tags within the database (similar to what picasa does) and just link the metadata tag to the existing tag in the database.  this would allow the tags to be grouped together by "dummy" tags as parents.  You could to set up parents something like "locations", "events", etc., then all the relevent tags could be grouped as children under those tags.  As the child would be unique, the parent tags would not have to be assigned as tags in the metadata.  

Currently the only way to group these types of tags together requires that all the parents of each tag also be tagged in the metatdata of the file.  Additionally If importing a file into digikam that already has existing tags, but may not match the current parent-child schema that I had set up, it creates duplicate tags, making the tags even more unmanageable.
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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2008-03-27 15:25 -------
Stop... (:=)))

This entry is full of ideas but not very constructive as well. For a developper, it's very difficult to handle all entries it and make the best solution for all.

To resume: a lots of ideas here are posted at the wrong place.
For ex. using Keyboard shortcut ==> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149007.
And there are certainly others one.

I will be more explicit here. The real subject of this file is "_Simpler_ entry of tags". For me make an a tag entry is to create new tags, not to assign already existing one. This is completly different, and here shortcuts for tags will be the ultimate solution.

To make a simpler entry of tags (as Create New Tag), i propose to patch 2 parts in digiKam to provide the same entry logic :

1/ Create New Tag dialog.
2/ Captions & Tags right sidebar.

For 1/, in "Title" field, i propose to use "/" as separator to create new hierarchy from current selected tag:

"France/City/Paris"

If you use "/" in first, hierarchy is created from root tag album.

This is want mean than "/London" is a simple new tag created from root tag album.

For 2/, we have already the search text field in Caption & Tags side bar. I propose to add a new bi-states button just on the left side to toggle text field as:

- Search text engine (working like current implementation).
- Create new tag entry (using the same logic than for Create New Tag dialog)

What do you think about ?

Gilles Caulier
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------- Additional Comments From kde foxcub org  2008-03-27 15:42 -------
I'm not sure why you say this is not constructive. Even if you ignore (in my opinion a rather productive brain-storming discussion that follows) the original bug report proposes a very simple solution (it doesn't get any more constructive). Essentially the same idea is implemented for Flickr on http://smark.us --- and it's by far the best way of tag entry I've seen.

What I suspect you are alluding to is that what you propose is considerably easier to implement than what's been requested (and voted for). That may be the case, but that's really the question of choosing programming ease over usability. You seem to prefer the former, I think the latter is more important. Of course, given that I'm not the one implementing it, I have no real say on the matter.

By the way, to clarify what I don't like about what you propose: tagging photos would still require using the mouse. What I really want is the ability to tag photos using only keyboard. This would make it much simpler to go through tagging a large batch of photos.

Best,
Dmitriy
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