rearranging tags into a new hierarchy - what happens?

[Elle Stone-3]

In digikam (0.9.3), what happens to already-tagged images when the tag hierarchy is rearranged?  In the image-management software that I used under windows, if you rearranged the hierarchy, perhaps grouping 5 existing tags under one new "super" tag, the database automatically rearranged the tag-assignment for all images already tagged with any of the five tags.  So, "tag1" on image.jpg (before the change in hierarchy) became Supertag.tag1 on image.jpg (after the change in hierarchy).

I played around today with rearranging the hierarchy in (a copy of) my digikam database, and nothing good happened - the tags disassociated from the images.  I have 181 images and five tags in my test database.  Every image is tagged with one (and only one - these particular tags are mutually exclusive tags) of the five tags.  These five tags logically fall into one group and I'd like to put them in one group before moving on to adding the next group of tags (and as I develop my tagging scheme, I suspect that these two "intake" groups will find themselves grouped together, so the hierarchy will be 3-deep for the "intake" tags). So what is the best way, if there is a way, to get the new hierarchy to show up in the image tags?  

This question of tag hierarchy leaves totally to one side the corresponding question of what happens to the metadata embedded in the image - right now I'm just asking about regrouping the tags in the database - how/ how difficult is it to change the hierarchy.  Though of course the next question is "how to get the revised tags/tag structure" written to IPTC, flat or dotted.  Personally, I like dotted, so that "Mytown" under "Mystate" becomes "Mystate.Mytown" in IPTC rather than "Mystate" "Mytown".  But both options have their drawbacks and I think I saw (but can't seem to relocate) reference to there being a choice in digikam as to what happens.  

Elle

[Elle Stone-3]

So with another copy of my test database I managed to carefully work my way through all five tags, selecting all images with a given tag and then dragging the tag to its new place in the hierarchy.  Doable, but if I change my mind tomorrow (hopefully I'm not the only person who finds tagging to be a work in progress), and if the number of images grows (there are about 5000 images in my main database, covering two years of digital images, but that number will grown by large chunks when we start scanning images in), then drag-and-drop one tag at a time will be cumbersome at best, and unmanageable at worst.

So is there a better way to redo the tag hierarchy? I mean besides the obvious "do it the way you want it the first time".

Also, after I got everything dragged over to its new place in the hierarchy, I changed the name of the supertag - the new tag appeared in the IPTC field, but it didn't replace the old tag.  I suppose if I poke around I'll find a method, short of resorting to exiftool, to update the IPTC field to reflect the new top-of-the-hierarchy name?

elle

[Arnd Baecker]

Hi Elle,

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008, elle stone wrote:

> In digikam (0.9.3), what happens to already-tagged images when the tag
> hierarchy is rearranged?  In the image-management software that I used under
> windows, if you rearranged the hierarchy, perhaps grouping 5 existing tags
> under one new "super" tag, the database automatically rearranged the
> tag-assignment for all images already tagged with any of the five tags.  So,
> "tag1" on image.jpg (before the change in hierarchy) became Supertag.tag1 on
> image.jpg (after the change in hierarchy).
>
> I played around today with rearranging the hierarchy in (a copy of) my
> digikam database, and nothing good happened - the tags disassociated from
> the images.  I have 181 images and five tags in my test database.  Every
> image is tagged with one (and only one - these particular tags are mutually
> exclusive tags) of the five tags.  These five tags logically fall into one
> group and I'd like to put them in one group before moving on to adding the
> next group of tags (and as I develop my tagging scheme, I suspect that these
> two "intake" groups will find themselves grouped together, so the hierarchy
> will be 3-deep for the "intake" tags). So what is the best way, if there is
> a way, to get the new hierarchy to show up in the image tags?

From your description (which is a little bit hard to parse,
at least for me as early as it is right now ;-), I tried the
following procedure to reproduce your problem:

- Image Folder: `ImgTagMoveTest` with images
   - img_tag1.jpg
   - img_tag2.jpg
   - img_tag3.jpg
- With tags:
   [ ]  TagMoveTest
       [x] TagMov1
       [ ] TagMov2
       [ ] TagMov3
  where img_tag1.jpg, ..., img_tag3.jpg are exclusively tagged
  with TagMov1, ..., TagMov3 (i.e., each image has the corresponding
  tag and just one tag).

- Now I create a new Tag, `TagsMoveDestination`,
  using the Right-side bar "Tags/Comments"
  and move, one-by-one, using drag and drop
  TagMov1, ... TagMov3 to `TagsMoveDestination`.

They all move fine and the images keep their association.
So presumably I am testing a different case than you describe
above.
Could you tell me which test I should do to reproduce your problem?

Best, Arnd
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[Gerhard Kulzer-3]

Am Friday 25 January 2008 schrieb elle stone:

> In digikam (0.9.3), what happens to already-tagged images when the tag
> hierarchy is rearranged?  In the image-management software that I used
> under windows, if you rearranged the hierarchy, perhaps grouping 5 existing
> tags under one new "super" tag, the database automatically rearranged the
> tag-assignment for all images already tagged with any of the five tags.
> So, "tag1" on image.jpg (before the change in hierarchy) became
> Supertag.tag1 on image.jpg (after the change in hierarchy).
>
> I played around today with rearranging the hierarchy in (a copy of) my
> digikam database, and nothing good happened - the tags disassociated from
> the images.  I have 181 images and five tags in my test database.  Every
> image is tagged with one (and only one - these particular tags are mutually
> exclusive tags) of the five tags.  These five tags logically fall into one
> group and I'd like to put them in one group before moving on to adding the
> next group of tags (and as I develop my tagging scheme, I suspect that
> these two "intake" groups will find themselves grouped together, so the
> hierarchy will be 3-deep for the "intake" tags). So what is the best way,
> if there is a way, to get the new hierarchy to show up in the image tags?
>

My tests were successful as Arnd's, and I wait for your exact procudure to

reproduce that jumbling of tags.

> This question of tag hierarchy leaves totally to one side the corresponding
> question of what happens to the metadata embedded in the image - right now
> I'm just asking about regrouping the tags in the database - how/ how
> difficult is it to change the hierarchy.  Though of course the next
> question is "how to get the revised tags/tag structure" written to IPTC,
> flat or dotted.  Personally, I like dotted, so that "Mytown" under
> "Mystate" becomes "Mystate.Mytown" in IPTC rather than "Mystate" "Mytown".
> But both options have their drawbacks and I think I saw (but can't seem to
> relocate) reference to there being a choice in digikam as to what happens.
>
> Elle

If you set-up digikam to save metadata into the IPTC fields, any time you move
or change tags they will be re-written into all pertaining files (which might
take a while if you move on top of the tree).

Gerhard
--
><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·... ><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·...¸ ><((((º>
http://www.gerhard.fr

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[Marcel Wiesweg]

To answer your question "what happens",
looking at the database:

Tag associations are stored in a table
image id -> tag id

Tags are stored in a table:
tag id
tag name
tag's parent id
tag icon

Moving the tag in the hierarchy changes the field "tag's parent id", but the
tag id remains unchanged, and the tag associations are not touched.
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[Elle Stone-3]

Hi Arnd and Gerhard,

My apologies, new user here! I can't replicate the failure to keep tags in synch with images as I edit tag names and rearrange the tag hierarchy, so clearly it was "creative user error".  

However, I am confused about the interaction between database tags and IPTC keywords.  I have digikam configured like this:  Under "Configure - digikam; Metadata" "IPTC Actions" "Save image tags as "Keywords" tag" is checked; and ""Common Metadata Actions" "Save image rating as tags" is checked.

Try this: 1. Create five tags: Art, Documentary, FriendsNfamily, Assignment, Trash.  Assign a tag to each image. 2. Edit tag "Art" to change it to "art".  Now all images that have database tag "art" have IPTC Keywords (as shown by the right sidebar Metadata IPTC tab) "Art, art".  3. Add "supertag" "why" and move all five tags under the new "supertag" "why".  Now the IPTC Keywords field shows "Art,art,why/art".  As I update and reorganize my database, I want to replace (not append) the IPTC keywords (right sidebar metadata IPTC) with the updated tags in the database.  Other people might prefer to append rather than replace - is there a user option that I've overlooked?

From digikam documentation: 1)"Album->Synchronize images with database:  Synchronize the metadata between database and the file's metadata of all items of the current Main Window. The images will inherit the database metadata, not the other way around."  2)"Tools->Update Metadata Database: Launch synchronization of all metadata between database and files for all files (not just current view as with this (Album->Synch) menu). Database metadata will be overwritten with the file's metadata in case of discrepancy. The opposite you can do from the Album menu."

How I synched up the digikam database and the IPTC Keywords: 1.Close digikam. 2.Use exiftool to set the IPTC Keywords field to "" (Proceed with exiftool at your own risk - especially with raw files - until you are certain the command you use does what you want and doesn't cause trouble with other applications):

elle@rn:~$ exiftool -Keywords='' -R /home/elle/dgcan/phowork
   11 directories scanned
  181 image files updated

3.Open digikam.  Now there are no keywords showing in the right sidebar metadata IPTC tab.  This is good.  Also, exiftool has created backup files with the extension ".<your extension>_original.  These backup files can be deleted once you are satisfied that all is right with your images and the digikam database.  4.Click on "Tools" and choose "Update metadata database".  Like magic, the database keyword hierarchy appears in the IPTC "Keywords" field.

I have "really really really" tried, but I can't find any difference between "album synch" and "update metadata" (other than the "one folder" vs "whole database" aspect).  I would expect that having erased the IPTC keywords, then "update metadata" would wipe out all the tags in the database, leaving no tags in the database and no keywords in IPTC.  But it doesn't.  Instead it puts the database tags into the IPTC Keywords field, which is the desired (in this case), if puzzling, behavior.

Elle