Users manual?
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> You nailed it. What I'm advocating for is that it be dirt-simple.
> Typical users (as opposed to "Linux lovers") don't want to LEARN, they > want to USE. Life is short. I have work to do. May I recommend you this other excellent product? http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/compare/ (since apparently you did not get that Free software is about freedom and community: that is, give a hand first, criticize afterward) Personally I never felt the need for a documentation in Digikam... Since I'm not that smart, I guess that it is because the application is damn intuitive. Thanks again for this great software Gilles! (and the other Digikam developers and contributors) PS: and maybe you should take a break from work, you seem pretty obsessed by it... (look, I've just done 16 hours straight, and now I'm relaxing a bit by flaming with you ;) _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Users manual?
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In reply to this post by tomcloyd
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 21:06:38 Tom Cloyd wrote:
> professional web site design experience), I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO WORK MY > WAY THROUGH GEEKSPEAK, much less go on a g.d. treasure hunt to FIND the > damned stuff. Since I often have little alternative, I give up time I > ought to be skiing, practicing guitar, publishing, developing friends > and lovers, just so I can locate the g. d. documentation for something I > really really need to use. Not good for my mental health, and you don't > want to meet me in a dark alley if I know you're the author of this ship > wreck. > > For what it's worth . Gotta get back to work. Dear Tom, if Linux is affecting your mental health, maybe you should really consider a Mac? I hear they are excellent and they "Just work". Maybe that way you can get back to doing what you are good at, perhaps like, for instance; spotting (your own) shortcomings in others. I mean, Linux is Free as in beer and Libre as in Wild west, if you catch my drift. If you want to be a part of this glorious movement, the dawn of the free software epoch, then roll up your sleeves and join in. I'm sure most people on this list would love to see usability skyrocket and all these user manual and other issues worked out, but that is just not our current reality. If it is yours you need a reality check. You can scream at M$ or Oracle or IBM if you paid big pucks for their goods or services, but the people on this list are doing the whole word a great service, free of charge. I say you owe them some respect for that. Also I think you may not be aware of how hard mails like yours can hit and hurt people who work their as$es off for free for whingymoany guys like you. Why not treat them like you would your neighbor in real life? Is that really too much to ask, or are you really that bad a neighbor? Dennis _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Wilkins, Vern W
On 01/05/2010 12:14 PM, Wilkins, Vern W wrote:
> One thing people tend to forget is that the majority of people working on projects like digiKam are not getting paid in any way for their work. I think it's reasonable to ask developers for things, but complaining about all that is wrong with an application or Linux in general is not productive. The fact that people are donating their free time to write code I can use is good enough for me. If I have to give up some of my precious time to understand how to make it work that's a compromise I choose to make instead of buying propriety crap from MS, ADBE, or anyone else. If you don't want to make that compromise, it's understandable, but it's not simply the fault of developers for not making things easy. > > Assuming that digiKam developers have limited time I'd be ok with never seeing any documentation and having them concentrate on new features, new releases, bug fixes, etc. Yes I always want more, but I'm happy with whatever I get! > > Vern > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Cloyd [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:07 PM > To: digikam > Subject: Re: [Digikam-users] Users manual? > > On 01/05/2010 07:20 AM, BGP wrote: > >> Tom Cloyd wrote: >> >>> I STRONGLY think links to immediately available documentation should >>> be visible in the main menu's Help item drop down or some other >>> VISIBLE space. When I recently installed Digikam on my Kubuntu 9.10 >>> OS, it came with NO help, no documentation a human being could easily >>> find, and a lot of frustration. All help links, context help, etc., >>> led to "no documentation available" messages. >>> >>> It took me close to 2 hours to find the solution to this problem. >>> This is NOT good customer relations. It's been three days and I >>> still pissed. >>> >>> I find this program to be quite interesting, and likely very useful >>> to me in the immediate future - BUT ONLY IF I CAN GET DOCUMENTATION >>> ON ITS FUNCTIONS WITHOUT CLEARING MY SCHEDULE AND JUMPING ONTO THREE >>> FORUMS (mild hyperbole there, but you get the idea) to find out where >>> the stuff is hiding and what I have to do to get it on my machine.. >>> >>> I really do NOT want to hear why I had this experience. I'm not >>> interested. I don't care. I don't have time. I want to hear that it's >>> going to be fixed, that in the future I'm going to get a complete >>> program when I install digikam. A user interface that isn't rather >>> easy to get into or get figured out is a failure. Period. I'm far >>> from computer illiterate and I simply fell into a deep hole with my >>> initial installation of digikam. >>> >>> I continue to be amazed that this sort of thing is simply accepted in >>> the Linux world. You want acceptance? Make yourself acceptable. >>> >>> (And thanks for this great program - as I'm getting into it, it looks >>> very fine. I'm grateful to have it. Now please fix the damn packaging >>> problem.) >>> >>> t. >>> >>> On 01/05/2010 06:28 AM, BGP wrote: >>> >>>> Gilles Caulier wrote: >>>> >>>>> install digikam handbook package. >>>>> >>>>> Gilles Caulier >>>>> >>>>> 2010/1/5 BGP<[hidden email]>: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Gilles Caulier wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> as a separate package. anyway it's there : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.digikam.org/drupal/docs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gilles Caulier >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2010/1/5 BGP<[hidden email]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Where do I get a users manual for Digikam? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm using Ubuntu 9.10 (if that matters). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Digikam-users mailing list >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> How do I configure Digikam so that when I hit the F1 key to get >>>>>> HELP the >>>>>> help/users manuals come up? >>>>>> Or, does everyone just download the PDF file and use it that way? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> How do I do that? >>>> >>>> Where do I get it? >>>> >>>> I just downloaded the Digikam.pdf file which I can open seperate from >>>> Digikam. Is that what everyone does? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Digikam-users mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> I second your comments and it's exactly what I've thought about Linux >> for a long time. Make it easy to access, understandable and not some >> computer geek techno-talk. I have spent TOO MANY HOURS reading trash >> from people that, for whatever reason, think they are the high-priests >> of Linux, understand the system perfectly but have no brains in their >> head or ability to tell others how to solve their problems with Linux. >> >> Heck, I still don't even know how to download a program with that that >> Tar ball or Tar bag or whatever it's called!!!! >> >> Linux would've slaughtered Windows years ago if it had been as easy to >> use (with some exceptions) as Windows. I have no intention of going >> back to Windows for most of my work but do not like having to put up >> with nonsense from a poorly presented system. >> >> On the other hand.....I really do like Ubuntu. But, it's just a >> system, a bunch of code lines and not a person. It's a product with >> no emotion and no soul so I'm under no obligation to regard it with >> the affection or loyalty I'd have for a person. >> >> Digikam is a good program. Much nicer than that wretched Picasa (and >> any thing that fool Google comes up with). The developers have done a >> good job of making it....but they could add on a few more things >> that'd make it the best. To get a help manual requires a PhD just to >> download and install. Really, how hard could it be to include all of >> the extras we need to start with ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Wow. I expected to be slaughtered for my observations, to which I was > also prepared to cling firmly, as I'm confident of their soundness. > Instead, you agree. Excellent. Thanks for the supportive response. > > I make my living working with people (as a psychotherapist) - which > doesn't mean I'm always very agreeable to be around! But, I do know that > people require management, and fostering. Computer aren't about > programmers, they're about users. Something as probably-terrific (I'll > know soon) as DigiKam, needs to give a LOT more attention to public > relations. My standard recommendations ('cause I've had this > conversation before): > > 1. The folks driving the software need to slow down feature development, > pull together a mechanism for getting and using customer feedback, and > then visibly make some usability changes. Documentation is only the > first step - not that many folks read the stuff (I do), but it still > needs to be there. Observing and responding to user interactions with > the interface IS the answer. > > 2. I strongly believe in the value of a user drive documentation wiki. > Just do it. Then promote it. DO NOT ALLOW good ideas which come out of > any related forum to lay buried there. Move them into the wiki. STOP ALL > CODING AND DO THIS FOR 30 DAYS, for pete's sake. Help us catch up with you. > > Bottom line: Computer literate as I am (mainframe operator experience. > programming experience in multiple languages - currently Ruby, > professional web site design experience), I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO WORK MY > WAY THROUGH GEEKSPEAK, much less go on a g.d. treasure hunt to FIND the > damned stuff. Since I often have little alternative, I give up time I > ought to be skiing, practicing guitar, publishing, developing friends > and lovers, just so I can locate the g. d. documentation for something I > really really need to use. Not good for my mental health, and you don't > want to meet me in a dark alley if I know you're the author of this ship > wreck. > > For what it's worth . Gotta get back to work. > > t. > > But not if I have figure it out by trial and error or spend hours guessing where I might find instructions which the program interface plainly says exists. In my initial contact with it, it took two hours to find any real documentation. It should have taken two seconds: Help > User Manual. A confession: My complaint has a purpose - I want the right people to get it that naive users don't bear up well under such insults. It doesn't matter how many unpaid hours you put into a project. Good intentions don't count. Just usability. Sorry if that upsets anyone, but it's just the fact of the matter. If you want the program to be used only by experts, geeks, and folks looking for a nifty way to fill up hours of empty time, hide the documentation. Or put the program out and let others (like packagers) worry about whether the documentation goes along with the binary or not. You're just doing it for the love, right? Well, that must be self love, 'cause frustration on the user end of things breeds no love. So, if anyone felt my pissed-offness, good. That was my purpose. Wish you'd been in the room a couple of days ago, when I was having the experience. You'd really have felt it then. This program immediately looks like a lot of intelligence went into it. And you're not going to make it easy for me to learn what all that technobabble means and does? Really? You don't care??? Believe me, if *I* have trouble, many more who know less than I do will simply walk away in disgust. I'd hate to see that happen with something as fine as Linux in general the DigiKam in general. What a tragedy. Obviously this is NOT just a Linux problem. Designing good user interfaces, in the most general sense of the term, is really hard, which is why we see so few of them, and why we have to keep listening to users (that would be me) and thinking about the problem. That's why I FILL my own profession website with all manner of documentation for what I do (which helps, but does not solve the problem, in truth). It's not a computer problem, it's a human cultural problem, and most programmers simply aren't up to it, which is why there needs to be a handoff to someone else. As it is, most people in my profession - highly educated folks, all of them - can barely use computers, and very few programs ON those computers, at that. Sigh. We have much work to do. t. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC Private practice Psychotherapist Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226 << [hidden email]>> (email) << TomCloyd.com>> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com>> (mental health issues weblog) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by BGP
I heard it said that no matter how good or complex a program is, or how many thousands of things it does correctly, users only see the few things it doesn't do properly.
I've removed all the quotes, they aren't relevant to my comment, and I'm annoyed I can't bottom or interquote on this stupid phone. -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Bugzilla from dennis@meulensteen.nl
On Tuesday 05 Jan 2010 20:31:50 Dennis Meulensteen wrote:
> On Tuesday 05 January 2010 21:06:38 Tom Cloyd wrote: > > professional web site design experience), I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO WORK MY > > WAY THROUGH GEEKSPEAK, much less go on a g.d. treasure hunt to FIND the > > damned stuff. Since I often have little alternative, I give up time I > > ought to be skiing, practicing guitar, publishing, developing friends > > and lovers, just so I can locate the g. d. documentation for something I > > really really need to use. Not good for my mental health, and you don't > > want to meet me in a dark alley if I know you're the author of this ship > > wreck. > > > > For what it's worth . Gotta get back to work. > > Dear Tom, > if Linux is affecting your mental health, maybe you should really consider a Mac? I hear they are excellent and they "Just work". Maybe that way you can get back to doing what you are good at, perhaps like, for instance; spotting (your own) shortcomings in others. > I mean, Linux is Free as in beer and Libre as in Wild west, if you catch my drift. If you want to be a part of this glorious movement, the dawn of the free software epoch, then roll up your sleeves and join in. > I'm sure most people on this list would love to see usability skyrocket and all these user manual and other issues worked out, but that is just not our current reality. If it is yours you need a reality check. You can scream at M$ or Oracle or IBM if you paid big pucks for their goods or services, but the people on this list are doing the whole word a great service, free of charge. I say you owe them some respect for that. Also I think you may not be aware of how hard mails like yours can hit and hurt people who work their as$es off for free for whingymoany guys like you. Why not treat them like you would your neighbor in real life? Is that really too much to ask, or are you really that bad a neighbor? Well said. Linux is a COMMUNITY. Join in or sod off. Mark > > Dennis > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by tomcloyd
My apologies for not reading this entire thread (maybe this was already
mentioned) ...but the fact is, that not all the various distro packagers include docs or create separate docs package (openSUSE does neither). Perhaps digiKam developers would consider adding "On-line help" menu item into the digiKam Help menu? ...just trying to suggest one way to help this "missing docs" issue ...personally I love digiKam, great work, thanks to all developers! P.S.: I've already made small donation, will do once again when budget allows it and I strongly encourage others to support this great project with whatever you can afford ;) http://www.digikam.org/drupal/donation?q=donation (I'm just happy user, not affiliated with the dev team at all) _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Mark Greenwood-2
Remember, folks- if these programs were that easy to use and simple to understand there would be no need for email lists and users groups.
There is another saying.....when you get something for free you're getting what you paid for it. As I said before- I like digikam as a product which is useful to me. And if I complain about it then the program (or the whiz-bangs that developed it) should defend itself by proving me wrong or showing me my mistakes in how easy it is to use. Like the other fellow said- we're computer "users" and don't have the rest of our lives to study this stuff. We're only asking for a simple, easy to understand instructions for Digikam and not some document with links that lead to nowhere. On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Mark Greenwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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On Tuesday 05 Jan 2010 21:22:20 BPG wrote:
> Remember, folks- if these programs were that easy to use and simple to > understand there would be no need for email lists and users groups. Exactly. That's why there are email lists and users groups. I'll say it again, it's a community. Users help each other. How many PC/Mac programs give you a direct line of communication to the programmer? > > There is another saying.....when you get something for free you're getting > what you paid for it. As I said before- I like digikam as a product which > is useful to me. And if I complain about it then the program (or the > whiz-bangs that developed it) should defend itself by proving me wrong or > showing me my mistakes in how easy it is to use. Why should they do that? They're not writing it for you. Commercial companies have to please their users. Free software developers don't. If you don't like it, help them improve it or use something else. It's your choice. > Like the other fellow said- we're computer "users" and don't have the rest > of our lives to study this stuff. So buy a Mac. Honestly, I'm not being facetious. If you just want to use it, pay money for something you just have to use. Linux is not (yet) a user friendly world. The "price" you pay for getting something for free is that you have to do a bit of work yourself to understand it and use it to its potential. Secondly, Linux is a community - the idea is that if you think something can be improved you get involved. Obviously the programmers want people to like their software and use it, but that is not the primary reason for its existence - it's a hobby, it's being part of a community, it is NOT a business. Companies like Canonical are trying to make a business out of it, so you have a right to complain to them. But complaining to developers who are simply sharing their hobby with you is downright mean. > > We're only asking for a simple, easy to understand instructions for Digikam > and not some document with links that lead to nowhere. It's the way it's being asked for that has irked me. You should be grateful you have any free software at all, but all some people seem to do is complain about its shortcomings. I stopped doing free software years ago because of people like you, and I have nothing but admiration for developers who continue to put up with it. Mark > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Mark Greenwood <[hidden email]>wrote: > > > On Tuesday 05 Jan 2010 20:31:50 Dennis Meulensteen wrote: > > > On Tuesday 05 January 2010 21:06:38 Tom Cloyd wrote: > > > > professional web site design experience), I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO WORK MY > > > > WAY THROUGH GEEKSPEAK, much less go on a g.d. treasure hunt to FIND the > > > > damned stuff. Since I often have little alternative, I give up time I > > > > ought to be skiing, practicing guitar, publishing, developing friends > > > > and lovers, just so I can locate the g. d. documentation for something > > I > > > > really really need to use. Not good for my mental health, and you don't > > > > want to meet me in a dark alley if I know you're the author of this > > ship > > > > wreck. > > > > > > > > For what it's worth . Gotta get back to work. > > > > > > Dear Tom, > > > if Linux is affecting your mental health, maybe you should really > > consider a Mac? I hear they are excellent and they "Just work". Maybe that > > way you can get back to doing what you are good at, perhaps like, for > > instance; spotting (your own) shortcomings in others. > > > I mean, Linux is Free as in beer and Libre as in Wild west, if you catch > > my drift. If you want to be a part of this glorious movement, the dawn of > > the free software epoch, then roll up your sleeves and join in. > > > I'm sure most people on this list would love to see usability skyrocket > > and all these user manual and other issues worked out, but that is just not > > our current reality. If it is yours you need a reality check. You can scream > > at M$ or Oracle or IBM if you paid big pucks for their goods or services, > > but the people on this list are doing the whole word a great service, free > > of charge. I say you owe them some respect for that. Also I think you may > > not be aware of how hard mails like yours can hit and hurt people who work > > their as$es off for free for whingymoany guys like you. Why not treat them > > like you would your neighbor in real life? Is that really too much to ask, > > or are you really that bad a neighbor? > > > > Well said. Linux is a COMMUNITY. Join in or sod off. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Digikam-users mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Digikam-users mailing list > > [hidden email] > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > > > Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by tomcloyd
I'll say it again: This looks like a great program. I'm eager to use it. Please type "digikam documentation" in google.
Do you know what the exposure, raw file, focal lenght mens? Then you are a geek. If you do not, or you have just bought a computer (I have such a filling, since you spent 2 hours on searching docs ;), digikam contributors won't help you at each step until you become digikam master and pro photographer. Sorry. You have search for the info before asking because people tend not to answer question which has already been answered. So, if anyone felt my pissed-offness, good. That was my purpose. Wish and: "Observing and responding to user interactions with
the interface IS the answer." Do you work in some sales department? ;) I believe that people become aware what these guys do ;) and do not use highly advertised products. Good product will be used.
It is not my and digikam contributors problem that you and you higly educated folks (geeks ;P) do not get well with computer geeks, dog geeks, cat geeks, basketball geeks, boxing geeks (please do not complain in a boxing gym that you cannot find a good book about how to hit with good right hook ....;) and any other ;) Put off the book and move you ass from the couch. Rumour has it, that there is some life out there. ;) I believe that group is for people who want to quickly get answer on unanswered question and not a good please for idealogical fights. The are some forums, we can have a char there ;) Btw, Gilles got angry because of the "strong suggestion" in capitals which have some meaning, I don't know whether you had realized. In corporation world, If you want to have a fight with somebody (or rather begin a war ;), you just need to strongly suggest somebody in capitals and put some big-heads in CC. But indeed, you are right in some things ;) _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Mark Greenwood-2
Le 05/01/2010 22:39, Mark Greenwood a écrit :
> say it again, it's a community. Users help each other. and I have to say that when I began to use digikam the manual was horrible. Now it's online, but very good, with many images and details. A great job done by I don't know how, but not by me :-( so many pages I didn't find time to read it. my fault. I wont even try to complain! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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I don't know what document you folks are reading but mine has dead links through out.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:46 PM, jdd <[hidden email]> wrote: Le 05/01/2010 22:39, Mark Greenwood a écrit : _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Mark Greenwood-2
Reading your discussions has been quit an experience :)
Some of them have been like from children`s playroom - mother give to me all or at least more and more ;) I want thank all members of digiKam team! Marjalee from Finland kam 2010/1/5, Mark Greenwood <[hidden email]>: > On Tuesday 05 Jan 2010 20:31:50 Dennis Meulensteen wrote: >> On Tuesday 05 January 2010 21:06:38 Tom Cloyd wrote: >> > professional web site design experience), I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO WORK MY >> > WAY THROUGH GEEKSPEAK, much less go on a g.d. treasure hunt to FIND the >> > damned stuff. Since I often have little alternative, I give up time I >> > ought to be skiing, practicing guitar, publishing, developing friends >> > and lovers, just so I can locate the g. d. documentation for something I >> > >> > really really need to use. Not good for my mental health, and you don't >> > want to meet me in a dark alley if I know you're the author of this ship >> > >> > wreck. >> > >> > For what it's worth . Gotta get back to work. >> >> Dear Tom, >> if Linux is affecting your mental health, maybe you should really consider >> a Mac? I hear they are excellent and they "Just work". Maybe that way you >> can get back to doing what you are good at, perhaps like, for instance; >> spotting (your own) shortcomings in others. >> I mean, Linux is Free as in beer and Libre as in Wild west, if you catch >> my drift. If you want to be a part of this glorious movement, the dawn of >> the free software epoch, then roll up your sleeves and join in. >> I'm sure most people on this list would love to see usability skyrocket >> and all these user manual and other issues worked out, but that is just >> not our current reality. If it is yours you need a reality check. You can >> scream at M$ or Oracle or IBM if you paid big pucks for their goods or >> services, but the people on this list are doing the whole word a great >> service, free of charge. I say you owe them some respect for that. Also I >> think you may not be aware of how hard mails like yours can hit and hurt >> people who work their as$es off for free for whingymoany guys like you. >> Why not treat them like you would your neighbor in real life? Is that >> really too much to ask, or are you really that bad a neighbor? > > Well said. Linux is a COMMUNITY. Join in or sod off. > > Mark > > >> >> Dennis >> _______________________________________________ >> Digikam-users mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users >> > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Users manual?
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In reply to this post by Wilkins, Vern W
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010 21:14:51 Wilkins, Vern W wrote:
> One thing people tend to forget is that the majority of people working on > projects like digiKam are not getting paid in any way for their work. I > think it's reasonable to ask developers for things, but complaining about > all that is wrong with an application or Linux in general is not > productive. The fact that people are donating their free time to write > code I can use is good enough for me. It is not just that: I may contribute by bug triage and coding, but I am really not a good writer, therefore for me, writing user documentation would be a pain (I think even somebody paying me for that would not make a change for me ;-)). And as you said, I am doing this in my free time, therefore I do stuff I like to do. ;-) Also, I write code for the stuff that I need or that bugs me first and yes, this means I am selfish sometimes. ;-) It is all about community and for me users are also part of community if they are positive and can think also about what they can do. And sometimes this may be just to be constructive when writing the e-mail to the mailing list... And another fact: Digikam has one of the best documentation (for FOSS project)! It may not be completely up-to-date, but it is good. Do not forget that this thread started just because Regards, Luka _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Users manual?
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In reply to this post by BGP
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010 22:49:08 BPG wrote:
> I don't know what document you folks are reading but mine has dead links > through out. I think you just found a place where you can contribute, right? ;-) And regarding the document, we are talking about, this are the steps I used to get to it: 1. Go to www.google.com 2. Search for "digikam documentation" (or just I feel lucky) 3. Click first link: http://www.digikam.org/drupal/docs 4. Click on digiKam PDF handbook: http://docs.kde.org/development/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/digikam.pdf 5. Read And I have to repeat: I think digiKam Handbook is really of high quality. Regards, Luka _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by BGP
I agree, in particular someone has done a lot of work creating screen shots. I'm not sure what the Gimp documentation looks like these days, but when I first looked at it there were a lot of headings with no information yet.
I think the DigiKam manual needs a little fine tuning, a few more explanations here and there, but that's all. -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Luka Renko <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> Sent: Wed Jan 06 09:42:03 2010 Subject: Re: [Digikam-users] Users manual? On Tuesday 05 of January 2010 22:49:08 BPG wrote: > I don't know what document you folks are reading but mine has dead links > through out. I think you just found a place where you can contribute, right? ;-) And regarding the document, we are talking about, this are the steps I used to get to it: 1. Go to www.google.com 2. Search for "digikam documentation" (or just I feel lucky) 3. Click first link: http://www.digikam.org/drupal/docs 4. Click on digiKam PDF handbook: http://docs.kde.org/development/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/digikam.pdf 5. Read And I have to repeat: I think digiKam Handbook is really of high quality. Regards, Luka _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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Bottom line:
* digiKam is an open-source project. * Contributors to digiKam are all volunteers, and as such they are entitled to do what they want and like to do. If they prefer to develop cool new features, that's their most sacred right. * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability improvements is useless. Usability is always a critical issue (heck, it's my job) and *everyone* is already aware of that. * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability improvements is also utterly counter-productive: it not only upsets the volunteer contributors, but it also deprives them of precious time that would otherwise be spent improving the software (be it for new features or, say, usability). * If you really care about usability, either join the team and improve it yourself, or provide calm, detailed, specific suggestions that developers can implement to improve the user experience. /That/ is constructive. * If all you can/want to do is rant on a mailing list, STFU. It accomplishes nothing. -- Guillaume Paumier [[m:User:guillom]] http://www.gpaumier.org _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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You've missed the point.
We're just looking for help and can't find it. dead links. poor documentation. Hot heads telling us the "shut the.....up" Look to thyself and see the error, not us. Guillaume Paumier wrote: > Bottom line: > > * digiKam is an open-source project. > * Contributors to digiKam are all volunteers, and as such they are > entitled to do what they want and like to do. If they prefer to > develop cool new features, that's their most sacred right. > * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability > improvements is useless. Usability is always a critical issue (heck, > it's my job) and *everyone* is already aware of that. > * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability > improvements is also utterly counter-productive: it not only upsets > the volunteer contributors, but it also deprives them of precious time > that would otherwise be spent improving the software (be it for new > features or, say, usability). > * If you really care about usability, either join the team and improve > it yourself, or provide calm, detailed, specific suggestions that > developers can implement to improve the user experience. /That/ is > constructive. > * If all you can/want to do is rant on a mailing list, STFU. It > accomplishes nothing. > > _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Guillaume Paumier
I'm MORE than willing to help write a users manual for the current
version of Digikam. Just tell me who I should contact. Guillaume Paumier wrote: > Bottom line: > > * digiKam is an open-source project. > * Contributors to digiKam are all volunteers, and as such they are > entitled to do what they want and like to do. If they prefer to > develop cool new features, that's their most sacred right. > * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability > improvements is useless. Usability is always a critical issue (heck, > it's my job) and *everyone* is already aware of that. > * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability > improvements is also utterly counter-productive: it not only upsets > the volunteer contributors, but it also deprives them of precious time > that would otherwise be spent improving the software (be it for new > features or, say, usability). > * If you really care about usability, either join the team and improve > it yourself, or provide calm, detailed, specific suggestions that > developers can implement to improve the user experience. /That/ is > constructive. > * If all you can/want to do is rant on a mailing list, STFU. It > accomplishes nothing. > > _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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http://www.digikam.org/contrib.html
at the top of the Digikam homepage. DIL23 :) On Wednesday 06 January 2010 01:51:44 BGP wrote: > I'm MORE than willing to help write a users manual for the current > version of Digikam. Just tell me who I should contact. > > Guillaume Paumier wrote: > > Bottom line: > > > > * digiKam is an open-source project. > > * Contributors to digiKam are all volunteers, and as such they are > > entitled to do what they want and like to do. If they prefer to > > develop cool new features, that's their most sacred right. > > * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability > > improvements is useless. Usability is always a critical issue (heck, > > it's my job) and *everyone* is already aware of that. > > * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability > > improvements is also utterly counter-productive: it not only upsets > > the volunteer contributors, but it also deprives them of precious time > > that would otherwise be spent improving the software (be it for new > > features or, say, usability). > > * If you really care about usability, either join the team and improve > > it yourself, or provide calm, detailed, specific suggestions that > > developers can implement to improve the user experience. /That/ is > > constructive. > > * If all you can/want to do is rant on a mailing list, STFU. It > > accomplishes nothing. > > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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More up to date informations about how to contribute are here :
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/contrib Julien DIL23 a écrit : > http://www.digikam.org/contrib.html > > at the top of the Digikam homepage. > > DIL23 > :) > > On Wednesday 06 January 2010 01:51:44 BGP wrote: > >> I'm MORE than willing to help write a users manual for the current >> version of Digikam. Just tell me who I should contact. >> >> Guillaume Paumier wrote: >> >>> Bottom line: >>> >>> * digiKam is an open-source project. >>> * Contributors to digiKam are all volunteers, and as such they are >>> entitled to do what they want and like to do. If they prefer to >>> develop cool new features, that's their most sacred right. >>> * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability >>> improvements is useless. Usability is always a critical issue (heck, >>> it's my job) and *everyone* is already aware of that. >>> * Posting angry rants on this mailing list demanding usability >>> improvements is also utterly counter-productive: it not only upsets >>> the volunteer contributors, but it also deprives them of precious time >>> that would otherwise be spent improving the software (be it for new >>> features or, say, usability). >>> * If you really care about usability, either join the team and improve >>> it yourself, or provide calm, detailed, specific suggestions that >>> developers can implement to improve the user experience. /That/ is >>> constructive. >>> * If all you can/want to do is rant on a mailing list, STFU. It >>> accomplishes nothing. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Digikam-users mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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