Timeline question, plus first impressions of 0.9.3 - delighted!

[Elle Stone-3]

Hi, all.  I am new to Linux and new to digikam.  I just spent the last two days trying to (and finally succeeding in) installing digikam 0.9.3 from source on ubuntu gutsy.  My "ubuntu" installation is not gnome, but rather a minimal command line install with icewm as my "desktop" and other stuff added as needed/wanted.

First impressions, I am absolutely delighted with digikam.  In the world of windows I've trialed a great many image management programs and image editing programs.  I was looking to use digikam to rate and label images and input initial iptc data.  But I read through the documentation and was really impressed with the editing capabilities.  Now I haven't actually edited any pictures yet! but I played around - very clean interface - love the curves - I wish photoshop's curve adjustment were that nice.  And your various noise and focus algorithms, pretty sophisticated stuff.  Images load up very quickly, look sharp on the monitor.  The layout of the main window is very clean and useable.  I getting the feeling that there's some really good, good programmers working on digikam.  

So here is my timeline question/comment:  First, I love the timeline.  My directory structure is by year/month/day/ with all images named by date_time_filenumber.  But it is still really delightful to see the calendar and see exactly when I was and wasn't taking pictures.  Somehow that calendar is just so much more human and inviting than my bare directory structure.

So I've been playing around with digikam, using a small branch of my photo directory copied over to my home directory (don't want to turn an unknown application loose on my permanent directory structure until I know exactly how it will work).  I entered a small bit of data into the IPTC of one photograph, taken November 11, 2007.  I updated the Metadata database (under Tools).  I wanted to verify that the data was indeed copied into the iptc field, rather than only being in digikam's database.  It was indeed written to the iptc.  

However, now the photograph is showing up on the timeline on January 19, 2008, the date the iptc was modified, rather than Nov. 11, 2007, the date it was taken.  Now this is just my own opinion, but I was surprised - I just don't think adding copyright information or a tag to a picture is a good reason for it to be assigned to a date on a timeline different from its creation date.

So I opened a different picture and did a quick edit and saved it under the same name.  It appears on the timeline exactly when I would expect, that is, exactly where it was pre-edit, on the creation date.  So to double-check, I added copyright information to another picture - it moved on the timeline from the date taken to the date I changed the copyright information in iptc and updated the metadata.

Is this a bug?  or a feature?  or a problem with this newbie's perhaps not so perfect attempt at installing from source?  or maybe even user error?

Elle

[Elle Stone-3]

Oh, I forgot to mention, the light table is wonderful!  No, wait, it's WONDERFUL!!

Elle

[Arnd Baecker]

Hi Elle,

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, elle stone wrote:

> Hi, all.  I am new to Linux and new to digikam.  I just spent the last two
> days trying to (and finally succeeding in) installing digikam 0.9.3 from
> source on ubuntu gutsy.  My "ubuntu" installation is not gnome, but rather a
> minimal command line install with icewm as my "desktop" and other stuff
> added as needed/wanted.

Great that you managed that step (I don't use KDE either, but fvwm,
so digikam is not really bound to a KDE desktop ;-).

> First impressions, I am absolutely delighted with digikam.  In the world of
> windows I've trialed a great many image management programs and image
> editing programs.  I was looking to use digikam to rate and label images and
> input initial iptc data.  But I read through the documentation and was
> really impressed with the editing capabilities.  Now I haven't actually
> edited any pictures yet! but I played around - very clean interface - love
> the curves - I wish photoshop's curve adjustment were that nice.  And your
> various noise and focus algorithms, pretty sophisticated stuff.  Images load
> up very quickly, look sharp on the monitor.  The layout of the main window
> is very clean and useable.  I getting the feeling that there's some really
> good, good programmers working on digikam.

Great that you like it - all those involved in the development
and documentation appreciate such comments!
Many aspects of how digikam feels/looks are originated
in a lot of feedback by users,
as expressed in the wishes in the bug-tracker.

> So here is my timeline question/comment:  First, I love the timeline.  My
> directory structure is by year/month/day/ with all images named by
> date_time_filenumber.  But it is still really delightful to see the calendar
> and see exactly when I was and wasn't taking pictures.  Somehow that
> calendar is just so much more human and inviting than my bare directory
> structure.
>
> So I've been playing around with digikam, using a small branch of my photo
> directory copied over to my home directory (don't want to turn an unknown
> application loose on my permanent directory structure until I know exactly
> how it will work).

Fair enough (but you do have a backup anyway, right ? ;-)

> I entered a small bit of data into the IPTC of one
> photograph, taken November 11, 2007.  I updated the Metadata database (under
> Tools).  I wanted to verify that the data was indeed copied into the iptc
> field, rather than only being in digikam's database.  It was indeed written
> to the iptc.
>
> However, now the photograph is showing up on the timeline on January 19,
> 2008, the date the iptc was modified, rather than Nov. 11, 2007, the date it
> was taken.  Now this is just my own opinion, but I was surprised - I just
> don't think adding copyright information or a tag to a picture is a good
> reason for it to be assigned to a date on a timeline different from its
> creation date.

Yes. This is not how it should be, in my opinion.
While the date of the file on disk should change,
because the file was changed, this does not
change the date on which the image was taken
and which is used inside digikam.

[...]

> Is this a bug?  or a feature?  or a problem with this newbie's perhaps not
> so perfect attempt at installing from source?  or maybe even user error?

No user error, in my opinion a bug.
This is similar/related to:
-  "change the comment of a picture without modify its timestamp"
    https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=144215

    Maybe you could add your remark to this bug
    so that it is not forgotten.

-  "Adjust Exif orientation tag changes files date"
   https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150609
See also:
- "Time and dates in digikam"
  https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141014

With the upcoming digikam 0.9.4 resolving such
issues with dates is planned.

Best, Arnd
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[Gilles Caulier-4]

2008/1/20, elle stone <[hidden email]>:

Hi, all.  I am new to Linux and new to digikam.  I just spent the last two
days trying to (and finally succeeding in) installing digikam 0.9.3 from
source on ubuntu gutsy.  My "ubuntu" installation is not gnome, but rather a
minimal command line install with icewm as my "desktop" and other stuff
added as needed/wanted.

First impressions, I am absolutely delighted with digikam. 

Thanks. It always fine to see good report from users.
 

 In the world of
windows I've trialed a great many image management programs and image
editing programs.  I was looking to use digikam to rate and label images and
input initial iptc data.  But I read through the documentation and was
really impressed with the editing capabilities.  Now I haven't actually
edited any pictures yet! but I played around - very clean interface - love
the curves - I wish photoshop's curve adjustment were that nice.  And your
various noise and focus algorithms, pretty sophisticated stuff.  Images load
up very quickly, look sharp on the monitor.  The layout of the main window
is very clean and useable.  I getting the feeling that there's some really
good, good programmers working on digikam.

So here is my timeline question/comment:  First, I love the timeline. 

The Date view available in 0.9.3, is not a Time-Line. It's a Calendar.

In next release (0.9.4), i have add a new Date Search tool based on a Time-Line widget. Look full description in my recent blog entry here ;

http://www.digikam.org/?q=node/290

Regards

Gilles Caulier

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[Elle Stone-3]

I did add a comment to the first bug as requested.  I've continued to experiment with digikam.  I can't reliably recreate having an image's place on the calender change from the creation date to the date iptc data was entered.  At first I thought it was tied to whether or not "Save image timestamp as tags" was checked under Configure - digiKam Metadata.  But that seems not to be true upon further testing.  I did see that, coincident with the image changing its place on the calendar, the "Date and Time (original)" on the exif tab gets reset to the date/time of the change in IPTC data So the "date and time digitized" is the correctly set to the "create date and time", but the date and time of the original is incorrectly reset.  So I will add another comment to the bug in question.  Puzzling.

Would some knowledgeable person share - what is the difference between "Tools, Update Metadata Database" and "Album, Synchronize images with database"?

Elle

[Gilles Caulier-4]

2008/1/21, elle stone <[hidden email]>:

I did add a comment to the first bug as requested.  I've continued to
experiment with digikam.  I can't reliably recreate having an image's place
on the calender change from the creation date to the date iptc data was
entered.  At first I thought it was tied to whether or not "Save image
timestamp as tags" was checked under Configure - digiKam Metadata.  But that
seems not to be true upon further testing.  I did see that, coincident with
the image changing its place on the calendar, the "Date and Time (original)"
on the exif tab gets reset to the date/time of the change in IPTC data So
the "date and time digitized" is the correctly set to the "create date and
time", but the date and time of the original is incorrectly reset.  So I
will add another comment to the bug in question.  Puzzling.

Would some knowledgeable person share - what is the difference between
"Tools, Update Metadata Database" and "Album, Synchronize images with
database"?

Look here :

http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.html#id2597928
 
http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.html#id2601054

Gilles

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> Would some knowledgeable person share - what is the difference between
> "Tools, Update Metadata Database" and "Album, Synchronize images with
> database"?

This is like syncing of data between palmtop and computer:

First item is taking data from images and writes it to database
(overwriting existing data if necessary). Second item is taking data
from database and writing it to images.

m.

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[Chris Green]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 08:39:45AM +0100, Miko?aj Machowski wrote:
> > Would some knowledgeable person share - what is the difference between
> > "Tools, Update Metadata Database" and "Album, Synchronize images with
> > database"?
>
> This is like syncing of data between palmtop and computer:
>
Not really it isn't, see below.

> First item is taking data from images and writes it to database
> (overwriting existing data if necessary). Second item is taking data
> from database and writing it to images.
>
Synchronising a PDA with a computer is rather cleverer than this.  The
date of a change on *either* PDA or computer is recorded and when they
are synchronised the *latest* change is applied to both PDA and
computer.  (i.e the time/date when the change is performed is
recorded, it has nothing to do with the time/date setting in the data)

I don't think I'd really want digikam to do this!

--
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[Elle Stone-3]

<quote author="Gilles Caulier-3">
2008/1/21, elle stone <[e-mail]>:

> Would some knowledgeable person share - what is the difference between
> "Tools, Update Metadata Database" and "Album, Synchronize images with
> database"?


Look here :

http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.html#id2597928

http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.html#id2601054



Gilles, thank you very, very much.  I read the manual over twice, the second time explicitly looking for information about how digikam handles metadata, and somehow skipped right over exactly what I was looking for.  I will read through a third time and see what else I've missed.

Elle

[Gerhard Kulzer-3]

Am Monday 21 January 2008 schrieb elle stone:

> 2008/1/21, elle stone <[hidden email]>:
> > Would some knowledgeable person share - what is the difference between
> > "Tools, Update Metadata Database" and "Album, Synchronize images with
> > database"?
>
> Look here :
>
> http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.ht
>ml#id2597928
>
> http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.ht
>ml#id2601054
>
>
>
> Gilles, thank you very, very much.  I read the manual over twice, the
> second time explicitly looking for information about how digikam handles
> metadata, and somehow skipped right over exactly what I was looking for.  I
> will read through a third time and see what else I've missed.
>
> Elle

As the main handbook writer I will not distract you from reading it a third
time :-)
But there are faster ways. Gilles has been so intelligent to put in a lot of
context help into digiKam directly. If you want to have an explanation of a
menu item, just press shift+F1. The mouse cursor will transform into a ?. Use
it to go into the menu and click on an entry. Instead of the menu being
executed a pop-up explanation will appear.

Gerhard

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[Chris Green]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 01:31:11PM +0100, Gerhard Kulzer wrote:

> Am Monday 21 January 2008 schrieb elle stone:
> > 2008/1/21, elle stone <[hidden email]>:
> > > Would some knowledgeable person share - what is the difference between
> > > "Tools, Update Metadata Database" and "Album, Synchronize images with
> > > database"?
> >
> > Look here :
> >
> > http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.ht
> >ml#id2597928
> >
> > http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/menu-descriptions.ht
> >ml#id2601054
> >
> >
> >
> > Gilles, thank you very, very much.  I read the manual over twice, the
> > second time explicitly looking for information about how digikam handles
> > metadata, and somehow skipped right over exactly what I was looking for.  I
> > will read through a third time and see what else I've missed.
> >
> > Elle
>
> As the main handbook writer I will not distract you from reading it a third
> time :-)
> But there are faster ways. Gilles has been so intelligent to put in a lot of
> context help into digiKam directly. If you want to have an explanation of a
> menu item, just press shift+F1. The mouse cursor will transform into a ?. Use
> it to go into the menu and click on an entry. Instead of the menu being
> executed a pop-up explanation will appear.
>

I wondered what that was supposed to do!  I read on the list a while
ago about shift+F1 providing 'localised' help but when I tried it I
only got as far as the ? appearing. I didn't realise it needed a
further action to produce something useful, I just thought that it
didn't work because I use FVWM.

--
Chris Green
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[Elle Stone-3]

Gilles has been so intelligent to put in a lot of
context help into digiKam directly. If you want to have an explanation of a
menu item, just press shift+F1. The mouse cursor will transform into a ?. Use
it to go into the menu and click on an entry. Instead of the menu being
executed a pop-up explanation will appear.

I think this "shift+F1" only works if one has kde desktop.  I have icewm "desktop" (no gnome, only enough kde to run digikam) and Firefox not Konqueror, so I end up reading the manual online, even though I installed the documentation.  I read in the FAQ that kcenter was the answer to setting defaults, but that's not installed, either - the price of a nonstandard install, I suppose.  

And the manual is so nicely written, well worth another read.

 
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