Photographs with metadata...

[Gilles Caulier-2]

Hi all,

Since digiKam use Exiv2 library, i have built a new "Metadata" sidebar to
display standard Exif,  IPTC, and Exif MakerNotes to remplace the old exif
viewer based on libkexif. Take a look here :

http://digikam3rdparty.free.fr/Screenshots/digikam0.9.0-alpha6.png

Actually, only JPEG and CRW files are supported (depending on Exiv2 library),
but i will make a metadata parser to check TIFF and PNG files.

The current implementation staying on my computer until i have completed all
indeep tests. I'm not sure to provide it to 0.9.0, because i need to check it
using a complete collection of image files including metadata (JPEG, TIFF and
PNG).

If any digiKam users use recent cameras (with marker notes) or any commercial
programs to tag images using IPTC (Adobe soft in photograph workflow for
example), let's me hear...

Thanks in advance for your help...

Gilles Caulier
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[Markus Spring]

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Hi Gilles,

Gilles Caulier schrieb:
> If any digiKam users use recent cameras (with marker notes) or any commercial
> programs to tag images using IPTC (Adobe soft in photograph workflow for
> example), let's me hear...
I am using a Konica-Minolta 7D with digikam - which is a really great program,
by the way!
So I would definitely like to see its exif data supported for the mrw files,
too, which exiv2 unfortunately does not do at the moment. Even more unfortunate
ist the fact that the Minolta MakerNotes are not decoded at all by exiv2, but
perhaps it's considered a dying system...

So for some of my examinations I will stick with Image::Exiftools and even try
to write an extension for this.

Markus
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Gilles Caulier wrote:

> If any digiKam users use recent cameras (with marker notes) or any commercial
> programs to tag images using IPTC (Adobe soft in photograph workflow for
> example), let's me hear...

I use a canon 350D, a canon A70 and makethumb.sh, as well as
some home made scripts

so what can I do for you?

jdd


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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 13:30, jdd a écrit :

> Gilles Caulier wrote:
> > If any digiKam users use recent cameras (with marker notes) or any
> > commercial programs to tag images using IPTC (Adobe soft in photograph
> > workflow for example), let's me hear...
>
> I use a canon 350D, a canon A70 and makethumb.sh, as well as
> some home made scripts
>
> so what can I do for you?
>

Give me any original images from your cameras. Place it on the web (please,
not by mail)

Thanks in advance

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 13:24, Markus Spring a écrit :

> Hi Gilles,
>
> Gilles Caulier schrieb:
> > If any digiKam users use recent cameras (with marker notes) or any
> > commercial programs to tag images using IPTC (Adobe soft in photograph
> > workflow for example), let's me hear...
>
> I am using a Konica-Minolta 7D with digikam - which is a really great
> program, by the way!
> So I would definitely like to see its exif data supported for the mrw
> files, too, which exiv2 unfortunately does not do at the moment. Even more
> unfortunate ist the fact that the Minolta MakerNotes are not decoded at all
> by exiv2, but perhaps it's considered a dying system...
>
> So for some of my examinations I will stick with Image::Exiftools and even
> try to write an extension for this.

Ah... Good sound !!! Great... You will contrib to Exiv2 project then...

i'm also Minolta user (Dynax 5D), and i would like to see  MRW exif info
available in digiKam (:=))))

I think that we can improve RAW file metadata support under Exiv2 since any
RAW files format have been decrypted by other projects. See bellow any links
to check about :

In general  :

- http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/RawStandards/RawSummary.html
- http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/
- http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/

NEF :

- http://www.clex.sk/cpexif/
- http://pages.quicksilver.net.nz/pepe/d70/Nikon_D70_on_Linux.html#exif

MRW (Z2 -> DNG converter) :

- http://dafnis.galeon.com/z2-en.htm

and the most _IMPORTANT_ !!! :

http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~dhh/tools.d/exifprobe.d/exifprobe.html

.. Where you can find a full code to extract Exif info from major RAW file
formats !!!

Nota : Exiv2 is also used to KphotoAlbum (Kimdaba) and Reveal program...

Gilles
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Am Donnerstag 23 Februar 2006 13:24 schrieb Markus Spring:

> So for some of my examinations I will stick with
> Image::Exiftools and even try to write an extension for this.
>
> Markus

You can use rawimage
(http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=30971) to show
mrw metatags as tooltip in digiKams album view and to integrate
(some) IPTC data.

As an unofficial side note. I talked the with Phil the creator of
ExifTool about porting the Perl lib to C++.
Phil will first complete missing writing support for all supported
filetypes but PDF. One missing writing feature are e.g. embedded
ICC profiles. When this is finished Phil said that it might be
the right time to port ExifTool to C++. But this should be done
as a comunity project and not as one-man-show as this is nearly a
rewrite.

So if you have interests in helping then we a two persons now :-)

Bye

  Thorsten
 
 

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 13:50, Thorsten Schnebeck a écrit :

> Am Donnerstag 23 Februar 2006 13:24 schrieb Markus Spring:
> > So for some of my examinations I will stick with
> > Image::Exiftools and even try to write an extension for this.
> >
> > Markus
>
> You can use rawimage
> (http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=30971) to show
> mrw metatags as tooltip in digiKams album view and to integrate
> (some) IPTC data.
>
> As an unofficial side note. I talked the with Phil the creator of
> ExifTool about porting the Perl lib to C++.
> Phil will first complete missing writing support for all supported
> filetypes but PDF. One missing writing feature are e.g. embedded
> ICC profiles. When this is finished Phil said that it might be
> the right time to port ExifTool to C++. But this should be done
> as a comunity project and not as one-man-show as this is nearly a
> rewrite.
>
> So if you have interests in helping then we a two persons now :-)
>

I think that it's not need to recreate a new project based on ExifTool.
Contribute to Exiv2 is certainly the better choose...

Gilles
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[Markus Spring]

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Gilles Caulier schrieb:
> Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 13:50, Thorsten Schnebeck a écrit :
...
>> So if you have interests in helping then we a two persons now :-)
If I only could speak C++ additionally to perl...
Markus
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Am Donnerstag 23 Februar 2006 13:57 schrieb Gilles Caulier:

> I think that it's not need to recreate a new project based on
> ExifTool. Contribute to Exiv2 is certainly the better choose...

Yes, I have pointed Phil to exiv2 as it has already the same
reading logic and has the same object orientated structure like
ExifTool. There are also some other very good C/C++ metatag
decoder out there.
But generic writing support for so many image formats it that what
makes ExifTool up to now unique - and it could be that exiv2
needs a deeper restructuring when it wants to have 1st class
writing support. When Phil starts implementing writing support
with Version 5.00 this was nearly a rewrite of 4.xx and that old
version had also very good decoding quality.
When implementing writing you have all the problems with different
TAGs meaning the same thing and so on.
I think exiv2 will have excellent support of decoding metatags for
all current raw formats in a shorter time. But I also think, that
writing metatag will be limited by the possibilities of libjpeg,
libpng, libtiff and copying  binary objects etc. But stuff like
integrating IPTC into mrw - I think - this needs a longer time.

Bye

  Thorsten

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 15:28, Thorsten Schnebeck a écrit :

> Am Donnerstag 23 Februar 2006 13:57 schrieb Gilles Caulier:
> > I think that it's not need to recreate a new project based on
> > ExifTool. Contribute to Exiv2 is certainly the better choose...
>
> Yes, I have pointed Phil to exiv2 as it has already the same
> reading logic and has the same object orientated structure like
> ExifTool. There are also some other very good C/C++ metatag
> decoder out there.
> But generic writing support for so many image formats it that what
> makes ExifTool up to now unique - and it could be that exiv2
> needs a deeper restructuring when it wants to have 1st class
> writing support. When Phil starts implementing writing support
> with Version 5.00 this was nearly a rewrite of 4.xx and that old
> version had also very good decoding quality.
> When implementing writing you have all the problems with different
> TAGs meaning the same thing and so on.
> I think exiv2 will have excellent support of decoding metatags for
> all current raw formats in a shorter time. But I also think, that
> writing metatag will be limited by the possibilities of libjpeg,
> libpng, libtiff and copying  binary objects etc. But stuff like
> integrating IPTC into mrw - I think - this needs a longer time.

About Reading RAW metadata, i full agree with you... but writting metadata in
RAW file is a non sence for me because all RAW files are propietary...

The only file format to backup RAW file data/metadata must be one : DNG (:=)))

Sure DNG isn't a standard actually, but it's the most serious way for the
future about writting...

Gilles
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Gilles Caulier wrote:

> Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 13:30, jdd a écrit :
>> Gilles Caulier wrote:
>>> If any digiKam users use recent cameras (with marker notes) or any
>>> commercial programs to tag images using IPTC (Adobe soft in photograph
>>> workflow for example), let's me hear...
>> I use a canon 350D, a canon A70 and makethumb.sh, as well as
>> some home made scripts
>>
>> so what can I do for you?
>>
>
> Give me any original images from your cameras. Place it on the web (please,
> not by mail)
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Gilles
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>
>

URL sent in private. there are 10, can send more if
necessary (they are on my own server, on a dsl line, not
very fast)
jdd

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http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html
http://lucien.dodin.net
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Gilles Caulier wrote:

> About Reading RAW metadata, i full agree with you... but writting metadata in
> RAW file is a non sence for me because all RAW files are propietary...

and raw file must stay what it is: raw :-)

jdd

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 16:15, jdd a écrit :

> Gilles Caulier wrote:
> > Le Jeudi 23 Février 2006 13:30, jdd a écrit :
> >> Gilles Caulier wrote:
> >>> If any digiKam users use recent cameras (with marker notes) or any
> >>> commercial programs to tag images using IPTC (Adobe soft in photograph
> >>> workflow for example), let's me hear...
> >>
> >> I use a canon 350D, a canon A70 and makethumb.sh, as well as
> >> some home made scripts
> >>
> >> so what can I do for you?
> >
> > Give me any original images from your cameras. Place it on the web
> > (please, not by mail)
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Gilles
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digikam-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>
> URL sent in private. there are 10, can send more if
> necessary (they are on my own server, on a dsl line, not
> very fast)
> jdd

It's enough thanks.

Gilles
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> About Reading RAW metadata, i full agree with you... but
> writting metadata in RAW file is a non sence for me because all
> RAW files are propietary...

Ok, this is maybe very special but have you notice Nikon software
announcement? Their latest NEF raw file management tool writes
the different software process step into the raw file. The same
with Apples new raw management program: You only use RAW as a
base, do your image eding steps (cropping, color, white balance
etc.) and save the parameters for these steps but not the result
in areas of the raw-file. As the file format follows standard
tiff chunks (CR2, NEF, DNG etc.) integration of aditional data is
not problem and its still possible to decode the initial raw data
with every converter.

So rewriting RAW file header is useful and writing ITPC tags into
tiff-like raw files is quite useful now that raw is a native
image format in digikam :o)

Another important writing part is metatag transferring from e.g.
raw to png. Today you often need to analyse a thumbnail jpeg-file
of a raw image to have a compatible binary block that you can put
into a png. But what if a cam does not support such separate
jpegs? Metadata in raw-files are not binary compatible to e.g.
png.

When digiKam wants to establish png as full featured file format
you should save all your tags also from raw.

Last point concerning 1st class writing support are digikams own
tag used for organizing and sorting. You know that there are many
potential users out there who are very sceptic to trust relevant
image information in a separate database. They want to have all
information of an image into the image and they ask if its
possible to sync database and image pool.

To make this long story short - everything but libexif seems to be
good for digikam to get a better generic metatag support over
all. But changing/writing metatags is the fine art.

Bye

  Thorsten


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[Daniel Bauer-2]

Am Donnerstag, 23. Februar 2006 16:30 schrieb Thorsten Schnebeck:
> You know that there are many
> potential users out there who are very sceptic to trust relevant
> image information in a separate database. They want to have all
> information of an image into the image and they ask if its
> possible to sync database and image pool.
>
ehm, yes in one way but no in another:

I often use search tags that are definitively only for my own personal use,
important to me for sorting things out, but not for public eyes.

to integrate IPTC data would really be nice (and kind of important for
professionals), but it would be *very* bad, if e.g. one day one of my
customers receives an image containing something like "unusable, but good
enough for this guy" ;-)

So, if you one day add the function to put additional information into the
image file, it must be easy to distinguish whether the info will be written
into the database only or into the image file. There must be a clear
difference between both uses.

Daniel

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Daniel Bauer wrote:

> important to me for sorting things out, but not for public eyes.

should still be in the image, but crypted
jdd

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jdd wrote:
> Daniel Bauer wrote:
>
>  
>> important to me for sorting things out, but not for public eyes.
>>    
>
> should still be in the image, but crypted
> jdd
>  
Why? Isn't this the Open Source advantage? Digikam does not use a closed
system, so anyone can just write a conversion script if needed.
I don't consider it a big deal if meta data is kept in a database, it
has lots of speed advantages, can be managed (updated and backed up)
easily etc. With closed source software, its a different story
altogether. reading headers out of large RAW files in all sorts of
formats is inefficient, slows things down, exposes the system to
obsoletion and introduces lots of  complexity.

I personally don't want any tampering at all with my original RAW files,
however well meant. Computers and OSes are such complex systems that no
one can tell you when the next bug will bite. I can guarantee you that
it will though. I've been a developer and DBA/ designer for long enough
to mistrust computers and software to the point of paranoia. Trust me,
you don't want to mess with Murphy...

IMO, putting precious developer effort into write support on RAW files
is a shameful waste of time. I'm not talking about some intermediate
format like DNG, which could be very useful.

Regards,
Dennis

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Dennis Meulensteen wrote:

> jdd wrote:
>> Daniel Bauer wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> important to me for sorting things out, but not for public eyes.
>>>    
>> should still be in the image, but crypted
>> jdd
>>  
> Why? Isn't this the Open Source advantage? Digikam does not use a closed
> system,

I think you are OT

Daniel said some data should not be public, so it's possible
for him to crypt them. only this part.

jdd

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