Opening raw file from different programs shows different results
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Hi All,
I am using digiKam to manage the photo files. I am also using GIMP 2.8.4 on windows 7 and UFRaw to edit the raw files Since they are all on the same computer and same screen I expect to see same results, however the picture on UFraw looks a lot darker than the picture in digiKam... My question is which one should I trust and why they look different ? Thanks _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Opening raw file from different programs shows different results
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Raw file are not processed by camera as JPEG. Computer need to
reproduce all settings, adjustments, corrections, etc, done by camera firmware (closed source). Each program open source from Linux use a dedicated implementation, all based on dcraw implementation. digiKam use Libraw. Can you image the complexity of task to process this type of image properly and in same conditions for all program. RAW cannot be processed automatically with best result. This require at least some human adjustments. RAW <> JPEG. Read generic documentation about RAW before to play with it. Gilles Caulier 2013/7/8 Fabio <[hidden email]>: > Hi All, > > I am using digiKam to manage the photo files. I am also using GIMP 2.8.4 on > windows 7 and UFRaw to edit the raw files > Since they are all on the same computer and same screen I expect to see same > results, however the picture on UFraw looks a lot darker than the picture in > digiKam... My question is which one should I trust and why they look > different ? > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Opening raw file from different programs shows different results
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In reply to this post by Fabio
Am 08.07.2013 03:02, schrieb Fabio:
> I am using digiKam to manage the photo files. I am also using GIMP 2.8.4 > on windows 7 and UFRaw to edit the raw files > Since they are all on the same computer and same screen I expect to see > same results, however the picture on UFraw looks a lot darker than the > picture in digiKam... My question is which one should I trust and why > they look different ? Do all the programs now about the color settings of of your display? cu Peter _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Opening raw file from different programs shows different results
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In reply to this post by Fabio
On Sunday 07 July 2013 21:02:19 Fabio wrote:
> Hi All, > > I am using digiKam to manage the photo files. I am also using GIMP 2.8.4 > on windows 7 and UFRaw to edit the raw files > Since they are all on the same computer and same screen I expect to see > same results, however the picture on UFraw looks a lot darker than the > picture in digiKam... My question is which one should I trust and why > they look different ? They are probably all correct, as there is no one correct way (as Gilles pointed out already). Transforming a RAW file into a usable image has several steps: demosaicing, white balance correction, noise reduction, brightness scaling, highlight recovery, gamma correction, ... Most can be done in several ways, and the best options depend on the image... It's in the last two that you'll find the main differences in brightness. Digikam's RAW processing module allows several ways of dealing with highlights (unclip, white, blend, rebuild) which give different results. None of these is 'right' for every image. So if your RAW developers use different methods to deal with brightness/highlights, you can easily get different results. Remco _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Fabio
I think he's saying that a developed RAW displayed in UFRaw looks darker than the RAW, after developing, in DigiKam. Maybe.
I don't work with UFRaw but this is the behavior with darktable since DigiKam will always display the original, not some modifications that the DT development did. -- Composed on my tablet. Apologies for typos. On 8 Jul 2013, at 14:18, "Gilles Caulier" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Raw file are not processed by camera as JPEG. Computer need to > reproduce all settings, adjustments, corrections, etc, done by camera > firmware (closed source). > > Each program open source from Linux use a dedicated implementation, > all based on dcraw implementation. > > digiKam use Libraw. > > Can you image the complexity of task to process this type of image > properly and in same conditions for all program. > > RAW cannot be processed automatically with best result. This require > at least some human adjustments. RAW <> JPEG. > > Read generic documentation about RAW before to play with it. > > Gilles Caulier > > 2013/7/8 Fabio <[hidden email]>: >> Hi All, >> >> I am using digiKam to manage the photo files. I am also using GIMP 2.8.4 on >> windows 7 and UFRaw to edit the raw files >> Since they are all on the same computer and same screen I expect to see same >> results, however the picture on UFraw looks a lot darker than the picture in >> digiKam... My question is which one should I trust and why they look >> different ? >> >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> Digikam-users mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Opening raw file from different programs shows different results
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On Tuesday 09 July 2013 07:57:51 HaJo Schatz wrote:
> I think he's saying that a developed RAW displayed in UFRaw looks darker than the RAW, after developing, in DigiKam. Maybe. That's quite possible (perhaps even likely). > I don't work with UFRaw but this is the behavior with darktable since DigiKam will always display the original, not some modifications that the DT development did. You can't display the RAW image. So neither DigiKam nor DT will display 'the original'. But, every RAW file (afaik) has an embedded jpeg image developed in-camera according to the camera algorithms and settings. This jpeg is the image you see when reviewing your shots on the camera screen, and when looking at RAW files in Digikam's or DT's album view (or equivalent). To see a bit of what I tried to explain, try developing a RAW several times in Digikam with different 'White balance/highlights' settings, and with and without 'Auto brightness' ticked. And check the tone curve DT applies to the RAW image after demosaicing, it's rather spectacular. I'm sure Digikam applies a similar curve 'under the hood', as it's needed to get a visually 'correct' image. _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: Opening raw file from different programs shows different results
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Raw editing seems to come up a lot and I'll just say again that Ufraw in my opinion does by far the highest quality conversion, with the least amount of work. I'm not knocking Digikam, because it has been, and likely always will be, my favorite photo management application, but I have used it for more years than I can remember and have never been able to get consistently good RAW conversion results, without a lot of work. Some of the things that frustrate me with Digikam's conversion include the fact that the settings I need to use seem to have changed at times from version to version, and more importantly, there seem to be too many settings that need to be adjusted for almost every photo (and these are rarely consistent from photo to photo), and I have never gotten good results with my camera profile. I'm not saying it's not possible, as others have obviously had success, I have just always found Ufraw better (in terms of results and ease/efficiency of use) than Digikam for this, and in fact better than every application I have ever tried, including Darktable, Photivo, RawTherapee, and even commercial Windows apps like the various Adobe products.
It's no trouble for me to incorporate ufraw into my workflow for the initial conversion from RAW to PNG (so there's no quality loss), and then I do the rest of the editing in Digikam before saving to JPG. Generally all I do in Ufraw is apply my camera profile, and if necessary adjust white balance, apply a curve, or adjust exposure. In Digikam I tend to crop, resize, sharpen (using Refocus which is just unmatched!), edit metadata, and save as jpg. In all these areas I have always found Digikam to be the best. I use Darktable in my workflow, between Ufraw and Digikam, only in some unique instances. For example, I have found Darktable's spot removable to be excellent. Vern -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Remco Viëtor Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 2:15 AM To: digiKam - Home Manage your photographs as a professional with the power of open source Subject: Re: [Digikam-users] Opening raw file from different programs shows different results On Tuesday 09 July 2013 07:57:51 HaJo Schatz wrote: > I think he's saying that a developed RAW displayed in UFRaw looks > darker than the RAW, after developing, in DigiKam. Maybe. That's quite possible (perhaps even likely). > I don't work with UFRaw but this is the behavior with darktable since DigiKam will always display the original, not some modifications that the DT development did. You can't display the RAW image. So neither DigiKam nor DT will display 'the original'. But, every RAW file (afaik) has an embedded jpeg image developed in-camera according to the camera algorithms and settings. This jpeg is the image you see when reviewing your shots on the camera screen, and when looking at RAW files in Digikam's or DT's album view (or equivalent). To see a bit of what I tried to explain, try developing a RAW several times in Digikam with different 'White balance/highlights' settings, and with and without 'Auto brightness' ticked. And check the tone curve DT applies to the RAW image after demosaicing, it's rather spectacular. I'm sure Digikam applies a similar curve 'under the hood', as it's needed to get a visually 'correct' image. _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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I'm not sure if this answer fits the rules, well if not the admins can delete this answer.
There is another very nice to use image and alos Raw file editor, LightZone, it has gone open source lately and it is really worth a try. It does not fit very well into the DigiKam workflow at the moment but as image editor besides showFoto and Gimp I dont want to miss it anymore. |
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