[Digikam-devel] Usage of metadata editor dialog

Hello,


Now, when crashes had gone away we can really use metadata editor.

1. Isn't it possible to grey out empty textareas? It would give some
   unity of look for all empty fields.
2. Stuff with greying out of unchecked fields isn't clear. Content of
   field will stay for "session" with current image but whey you OK
   changes it will be removed. What is a purpose of this checkbox?
   Probably I don't understand something.
3. Exif metadata syncing of User comments. Great, great, great :)
   *cough* Of course... *cough* ;)

   a) "sync with host application". Is it possible to put there real
      name? More user friendly.
   b) Beside IPTC option should be warning about ASCII limitation
   c) When I put some phrase there and edit later in Digikam comment
      field at the end, later return to Exif editor I see some garbage
      at the end of field. Only in Exif editor, in Digikam it is clean.
      Correction: even without editing in Digikam when I return to Exif
      editor I see garbage at the end.
   d) Syncing IPTC caption -> Exif and Digikam (host)? While this is
      definitely non interesting for non-ASCII users (and potentially
      disastrous) for English natives it may be interesting possibility
      (due to limitation it should be turned off by default)

4. Different implementation of mass editing between Exif and IPTC.

   a) Choose four images.
   b) Edit Exif.
   c) Fill caption "asdf", and OK.

   Only first image is described with "asdf". Repeat for IPTC, all
   four images will be described.

5. Different behaviour when some images had previous descriptions:

   a) You have four images: 1,2,3,4.
   b) Add caption to 1: "asdf".
   c) Add caption to 4: "qwer".
   d) Select all four images.
   e) Open editor, in 1 you see "asdf".
   f) Go to 2, you still see "asdf".
   g) Change caption to "zxcv".
   i) Go to 3. You still see "zxvc", similar behaviour to editing with
      empty fields, do nothing.
   j) Go to 4. You see "qwer".
   k) Click OK.

   You could expect captions will be:
   
    1:"asdf", 2:"zxcv", 3:"zxcv", 4:"qwer".
       
   But no, there are:

    1:"asdf", 2:"zxcv", 3:{empty}, 4:"qwer".

   IMO 3 *should* be "zxcv".

   WARNING: you should check this going through images individually,
   when using multiple selection in caption will be value of previously
   visited caption (2->3, "zxcv"; 4->3, "qwer").

   Unfortunately I don't see good solution for this. Adding buttons
   beside fields: "Apply to all", "Apply to all empty" would be the best
   from functionality but it would have to be done for ALL buttons
   - horrible interface.

HTH.

m.

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Mikolaj ,

Thanks for this great feedback. I will respond to all points later. Let's me
some time to parse your report (:=)))

Gilles


Le vendredi 17 novembre 2006 20:54, Mikolaj Machowski a écrit :

> Hello,
>
>
> Now, when crashes had gone away we can really use metadata editor.
>
> 1. Isn't it possible to grey out empty textareas? It would give some
>    unity of look for all empty fields.
> 2. Stuff with greying out of unchecked fields isn't clear. Content of
>    field will stay for "session" with current image but whey you OK
>    changes it will be removed. What is a purpose of this checkbox?
>    Probably I don't understand something.
> 3. Exif metadata syncing of User comments. Great, great, great :)
>    *cough* Of course... *cough* ;)
>
>    a) "sync with host application". Is it possible to put there real
>       name? More user friendly.
>    b) Beside IPTC option should be warning about ASCII limitation
>    c) When I put some phrase there and edit later in Digikam comment
>       field at the end, later return to Exif editor I see some garbage
>       at the end of field. Only in Exif editor, in Digikam it is clean.
>       Correction: even without editing in Digikam when I return to Exif
>       editor I see garbage at the end.
>    d) Syncing IPTC caption -> Exif and Digikam (host)? While this is
>       definitely non interesting for non-ASCII users (and potentially
>       disastrous) for English natives it may be interesting possibility
>       (due to limitation it should be turned off by default)
>
> 4. Different implementation of mass editing between Exif and IPTC.
>
>    a) Choose four images.
>    b) Edit Exif.
>    c) Fill caption "asdf", and OK.
>
>    Only first image is described with "asdf". Repeat for IPTC, all
>    four images will be described.
>
> 5. Different behaviour when some images had previous descriptions:
>
>    a) You have four images: 1,2,3,4.
>    b) Add caption to 1: "asdf".
>    c) Add caption to 4: "qwer".
>    d) Select all four images.
>    e) Open editor, in 1 you see "asdf".
>    f) Go to 2, you still see "asdf".
>    g) Change caption to "zxcv".
>    i) Go to 3. You still see "zxvc", similar behaviour to editing with
>       empty fields, do nothing.
>    j) Go to 4. You see "qwer".
>    k) Click OK.
>
>    You could expect captions will be:
>
>     1:"asdf", 2:"zxcv", 3:"zxcv", 4:"qwer".
>
>    But no, there are:
>
>     1:"asdf", 2:"zxcv", 3:{empty}, 4:"qwer".
>
>    IMO 3 *should* be "zxcv".
>
>    WARNING: you should check this going through images individually,
>    when using multiple selection in caption will be value of previously
>    visited caption (2->3, "zxcv"; 4->3, "qwer").
>
>    Unfortunately I don't see good solution for this. Adding buttons
>    beside fields: "Apply to all", "Apply to all empty" would be the best
>    from functionality but it would have to be done for ALL buttons
>    - horrible interface.
>
> HTH.
>
> m.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-devel

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Friday 17 November 2006 20:54, Mikolaj Machowski wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> Now, when crashes had gone away we can really use metadata editor.
>
> 1. Isn't it possible to grey out empty textareas? It would give some
>    unity of look for all empty fields.

I think it's a bug in KDELib, especially in KTextEdit witch not grey-out
widget if it's disable. If i use a QTexctEdit instead all work fine, but i
can't use auto-completion and Spell-Checking in this case.

> 2. Stuff with greying out of unchecked fields isn't clear. Content of
>    field will stay for "session" with current image but whey you OK
>    changes it will be removed. What is a purpose of this checkbox?
>    Probably I don't understand something.

When the Exif dialog is started, if a checkbox is unchecked,  the tag is not
available in metadata.

If you set on a checkbox, the tag will be add to metadata.

If you set off a checkbox of an existing tag, this one will be removed from
metadata.

> 3. Exif metadata syncing of User comments. Great, great, great :)
>    *cough* Of course... *cough* ;)
>
>    a) "sync with host application". Is it possible to put there real
>       name? More user friendly.

Done.

>    b) Beside IPTC option should be warning about ASCII limitation

Done.

>    c) When I put some phrase there and edit later in Digikam comment
>       field at the end, later return to Exif editor I see some garbage
>       at the end of field. Only in Exif editor, in Digikam it is clean.
>       Correction: even without editing in Digikam when I return to Exif
>       editor I see garbage at the end.

i will check it.

>    d) Syncing IPTC caption -> Exif and Digikam (host)? While this is
>       definitely non interesting for non-ASCII users (and potentially
>       disastrous) for English natives it may be interesting possibility
>       (due to limitation it should be turned off by default)

Since there is a warning in dialog, user can take a care and unset this option
if necessary.

>
> 4. Different implementation of mass editing between Exif and IPTC.
>
>    a) Choose four images.
>    b) Edit Exif.
>    c) Fill caption "asdf", and OK.
>
>    Only first image is described with "asdf". Repeat for IPTC, all
>    four images will be described.

Not reproductible here. Are you sure ?

>
> 5. Different behaviour when some images had previous descriptions:
>
>    a) You have four images: 1,2,3,4.
>    b) Add caption to 1: "asdf".
>    c) Add caption to 4: "qwer".
>    d) Select all four images.
>    e) Open editor, in 1 you see "asdf".
>    f) Go to 2, you still see "asdf".
>    g) Change caption to "zxcv".
>    i) Go to 3. You still see "zxvc", similar behaviour to editing with
>       empty fields, do nothing.
>    j) Go to 4. You see "qwer".
>    k) Click OK.
>
>    You could expect captions will be:
>
>     1:"asdf", 2:"zxcv", 3:"zxcv", 4:"qwer".
>
>    But no, there are:
>
>     1:"asdf", 2:"zxcv", 3:{empty}, 4:"qwer".
>
>    IMO 3 *should* be "zxcv".
>
>    WARNING: you should check this going through images individually,
>    when using multiple selection in caption will be value of previously
>    visited caption (2->3, "zxcv"; 4->3, "qwer").
>
>    Unfortunately I don't see good solution for this. Adding buttons
>    beside fields: "Apply to all", "Apply to all empty" would be the best
>    from functionality but it would have to be done for ALL buttons
>    - horrible interface.

New option to set only Comments is availble on svn. This is the only way to
have a clean up interface for mass editing Comments. Try it.

Thanks for this report. I will check pending points later.

Gilles
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Dnia pon lis 20 2006, Gilles Caulier napisał:
> > 1. Isn't it possible to grey out empty textareas? It would give some
> >    unity of look for all empty fields.
>
> I think it's a bug in KDELib, especially in KTextEdit witch not grey-out
> widget if it's disable. If i use a QTexctEdit instead all work fine, but
> i can't use auto-completion and Spell-Checking in this case.

OK. So this is better to leave this as is in Digikam and file bug
against kdelibs (add to todo list...).

>
> > 2. Stuff with greying out of unchecked fields isn't clear. Content of
>
> When the Exif dialog is started, if a checkbox is unchecked,  the tag is
> not available in metadata.
>
> If you set on a checkbox, the tag will be add to metadata.
>
> If you set off a checkbox of an existing tag, this one will be removed
> from metadata.

OK. But I think this would be easier to understand if setting off
checkbox would immediately clear content of field - not greying out it.
Temporary disabling of it, only for time of "session" with current photo
- not even selection of photos - is confusing.

I understand you are immediately disabling widget with result of greying
out text. Please change it to: clear widget, disable next.

> > 4. Different implementation of mass editing between Exif and IPTC.
> >
> >    a) Choose four images.
> >    b) Edit Exif.
> >    c) Fill caption "asdf", and OK.
> >
> >    Only first image is described with "asdf". Repeat for IPTC, all
> >    four images will be described.
>
> Not reproductible here. Are you sure ?

Yes. Did you test it image by image, not selecting all images and going
through them with buttons?

>
> New option to set only Comments is availble on svn. This is the only way
> to have a clean up interface for mass editing Comments. Try it.

OK - I will try it. After a moment I think Comments is the only one
field which really needs that. Maybe also copyright related fields.

m.

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

>
> > New option to set only Comments is availble on svn. This is the only way
> > to have a clean up interface for mass editing Comments. Try it.
>
> OK - I will try it. After a moment I think Comments is the only one
> field which really needs that. Maybe also copyright related fields.
>

There is also another option to mass remove Comments.

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

> > > 4. Different implementation of mass editing between Exif and IPTC.
> > >
> > >    a) Choose four images.
> > >    b) Edit Exif.
> > >    c) Fill caption "asdf", and OK.
> > >
> > >    Only first image is described with "asdf". Repeat for IPTC, all
> > >    four images will be described.
> >
> > Not reproductible here. Are you sure ?
>
> Yes. Did you test it image by image, not selecting all images and going
> through them with buttons?

Ahhhh !!!!

Yes, i can reproduce this problem here. It simple, i have forget to cleanup
all widgets from dialog when current picture is changed. I will fix it...

Marcel, like you is a medecine man, do you have an aspirin ? (:=)))).

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

> > > > 4. Different implementation of mass editing between Exif and IPTC.
> > > >
> > > >    a) Choose four images.
> > > >    b) Edit Exif.
> > > >    c) Fill caption "asdf", and OK.
> > > >
> > > >    Only first image is described with "asdf". Repeat for IPTC, all
> > > >    four images will be described.
> > >
> > > Not reproductible here. Are you sure ?
> >
> > Yes. Did you test it image by image, not selecting all images and going
> > through them with buttons?
>
> Ahhhh !!!!
>
> Yes, i can reproduce this problem here. It simple, i have forget to cleanup
> all widgets from dialog when current picture is changed. I will fix it...
>

Mikolaj,

Fixed in svn. please checkout and try again.

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Monday 20 November 2006 09:33, Gilles Caulier(UNTRUSTED, sender is
<digikam-devel-bounces-+caulier.gilles=[hidden email]>) wrote:
> >    d) Syncing IPTC caption -> Exif and Digikam (host)? While this is
> >       definitely non interesting for non-ASCII users (and potentially
> >       disastrous) for English natives it may be interesting possibility
> >       (due to limitation it should be turned off by default)
>
> Since there is a warning in dialog, user can take a care and unset this
> option if necessary.

Mikolaj,

Accordinly with BUG #136260, i have add 2 new options (commit # 606713) to
sync IPTC Creation Date and Date hosted by digiKam database with the Exif
Create Date.

Pending 4 important questions :

1/ Like Exif Edit Dialog, is this necessary to have the same rule with IPTC
edit dialog to sync EXIF/JFIF/digiKam comments with IPTC caption tag ?

2/ Like Exif Edit Dialog, is this necessary to have the same rule with IPTC
edit dialog to sync EXIF/JFIF/digiKam Creation Date with IPTC Creation Date
tag ?

3/ What do you think about to have an option to sync pictures File timestamp
(on FS) with Exif Creation Date ?

4/ Like Mass Comment editor option, perhaps to have a Mass Creation Date
editor is a good idea ?

In case of 3/ and 4/, is Adjust DateTime plugin is redondant. If I implement
3/ and 4/, this old plugin will be redondant and obsolete...

Angelo, i CC you this mail from [hidden email] mailing between me and
Mikolaj Machowski <[hidden email]>, a digiKam user witch have reported a lots
of comments about to improve MetadataEdit kipi-plugin.

All comments are welcome...

Gilles

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Dnia wto lis 21 2006, Gilles Caulier napisał:
> Mikolaj,
>
> Accordinly with BUG #136260, i have add 2 new options (commit # 606713)
> to sync IPTC Creation Date and Date hosted by digiKam database with the
> Exif Create Date.

I cannot test it because of not compiling. Only thinking here.

Before comments I'd like to show how XnView solved this problem.
Below main input part are 3 options:

- apply to all fields, overwriting existing entries
- merge with existing entries
- apply only to empty fields

In this way you can easily manage mass editing of meta fields.

In Digikam it would mean increasing size of main dialog but it is worth
it (IMO). It would also mean separate dialog for mass editing would be
unnecessary.

> Pending 4 important questions :
>
> 1/ Like Exif Edit Dialog, is this necessary to have the same rule with
> IPTC edit dialog to sync EXIF/JFIF/digiKam comments with IPTC caption
> tag ?

That was my suggestion in one of previous posts.

> 2/ Like Exif Edit Dialog, is this necessary to have the same rule with
> IPTC edit dialog to sync EXIF/JFIF/digiKam Creation Date with IPTC
> Creation Date tag ?

It would be good thing IMO.

> 3/ What do you think about to have an option to sync pictures File
> timestamp (on FS) with Exif Creation Date ?

It would be good thing IMO.

> 4/ Like Mass Comment editor option, perhaps to have a Mass Creation Date
> editor is a good idea ?

See above.

> In case of 3/ and 4/, is Adjust DateTime plugin is redondant. If I
> implement 3/ and 4/, this old plugin will be redondant and obsolete...

m.

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 20:30, Mikolaj Machowski wrote:
> > 1/ Like Exif Edit Dialog, is this necessary to have the same rule with
> > IPTC edit dialog to sync EXIF/JFIF/digiKam comments with IPTC caption
> > tag ?
>
> That was my suggestion in one of previous posts.

Done in svn. Checkout and try again.

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 20:30, Mikolaj Machowski wrote:
> I cannot test it because of not compiling. Only thinking here.

Fixed in svn. Checkout an dtry again

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 20:30, Mikolaj Machowski wrote:
> > 2/ Like Exif Edit Dialog, is this necessary to have the same rule with
> > IPTC edit dialog to sync EXIF/JFIF/digiKam Creation Date with IPTC
> > Creation Date tag ?
>
> It would be good thing IMO.

Done in svn. checkout and try again

Gilles
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Dnia śro lis 22 2006, Mikolaj Machowski napisał:

I will comment on my own e-mail since Gilles replied very laconically.

> Dnia wto lis 21 2006, Gilles Caulier napisał:
> > Mikolaj,
> >
> > Accordinly with BUG #136260, i have add 2 new options (commit #
> > 606713) to sync IPTC Creation Date and Date hosted by digiKam database
> > with the Exif Create Date.
>
> I cannot test it because of not compiling. Only thinking here.

Thanks, it works now.

> > Pending 4 important questions :
> >
> > 1/ Like Exif Edit Dialog, is this necessary to have the same rule with
> > IPTC edit dialog to sync EXIF/JFIF/digiKam comments with IPTC caption
> > tag ?
>
> That was my suggestion in one of previous posts.

Gilles implemented that (Thank You :) and now I have mixed feelings.

My proposition:

1. Remove all syncing options from main Exif/IPTC dialogs.
2. Add possibility for batch writing of fields as in XnView (3 options).
3. Expand Comments dialog into Common metadata dialog, in this dialog
   would be fields:

   - Comments
   - Creation time
   - Digitization time
   - Copyright
   - Artist (Exif) / Credit (IPTC) <- not really identical but IMO close
     enough
   - Image description (Exif) / Object name (IPTC) <- as above

   Only in this dialog you could sync between standards of metadata.

4. In Common dialog also add possibility to writing of fields as in
   XnView.

In this way Digikam will cover all two dimensional metadata editing (1st
dimension is batch editing, 2nd is writing across various metadata
systems).

Also put Common editing as first choice in submenu.

RFC.
HTH.
TIA for comments. ;)

m.

ps. I thought that date syncing will be applied also for file time stamp
    not only Digikam internals.
ps2. I should really learn C++ and do some things myself...

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> 3. Expand Comments dialog into Common metadata dialog, in this dialog
>    would be fields:
>
>    - Comments
>    - Creation time
>    - Digitization time
>    - Copyright
>    - Artist (Exif) / Credit (IPTC) <- not really identical but IMO close
>      enough
>    - Image description (Exif) / Object name (IPTC) <- as above

About the above options, I believe there are some wishes on bugzilla,
Gilles can you check it if you add those opions?

> 4. In Common dialog also add possibility to writing of fields as in
>    XnView.
I believe any improvements that add user friendly and
useful options  are always welcome.
 
> In this way Digikam will cover all two dimensional metadata editing (1st
> dimension is batch editing, 2nd is writing across various metadata
> systems).
Kipi plugins are not used by digikam only, but finding them into digikam
and into your preferred image viewer as well (maybe a day, also in konqi with a
context menu) make them vary familiar and perfectly integrated with the
system, I believe  

> RFC.
I'm sorry I can't talk about that a lot in these days, hope to have more time
next month.

> ps2. I should really learn C++ and do some things myself...
hmm, that's always a good idea, we always keep an open door for new
helping people :)

Regards,
        Angelo


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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Thursday 23 November 2006 22:17, Angelo Naselli wrote:

> > 3. Expand Comments dialog into Common metadata dialog, in this dialog
> >    would be fields:
> >
> >    - Comments
> >    - Creation time
> >    - Digitization time
> >    - Copyright
> >    - Artist (Exif) / Credit (IPTC) <- not really identical but IMO close
> >      enough
> >    - Image description (Exif) / Object name (IPTC) <- as above
>
> About the above options, I believe there are some wishes on bugzilla,
> Gilles can you check it if you add those opions?
>

yes, i will do it.

> > 4. In Common dialog also add possibility to writing of fields as in
> >    XnView.
>
> I believe any improvements that add user friendly and
> useful options are always welcome.
>
> > In this way Digikam will cover all two dimensional metadata editing (1st
> > dimension is batch editing, 2nd is writing across various metadata
> > systems).
>
> Kipi plugins are not used by digikam only, but finding them into digikam
> and into your preferred image viewer as well (maybe a day, also in konqi
> with a context menu) make them vary familiar and perfectly integrated with
> the system, I believe
>
> > RFC.
>
> I'm sorry I can't talk about that a lot in these days, hope to have more
> time next month.

RFC ??? Please do not use cellular phone syntax (:=)).

>
> > ps2. I should really learn C++ and do some things myself...
>
> hmm, that's always a good idea, we always keep an open door for new
> helping people :)

Since a long time, Mikolaj must learn C++. Wake up (:=)))

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 20:30, Mikolaj Machowski wrote:
> > 4/ Like Mass Comment editor option, perhaps to have a Mass Creation Date
> > editor is a good idea ?
>
> See above.
>
> > In case of 3/ and 4/, is Adjust DateTime plugin is redondant. If I
> > implement 3/ and 4/, this old plugin will be redondant and obsolete...

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 20:30, you wrote:
> > 4/ Like Mass Comment editor option, perhaps to have a Mass Creation Date
> > editor is a good idea ?

Done in svn like improvement of current TimeAdjust kikp-plugin.

Look here :

http://digikam3rdparty.free.fr/Screenshots/digikam0.9.0-timeadjustkipiplugin.png

Gilles
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