[Digikam-devel] [Bug 135048] New: easy comparing similar pictures using a lighttable

[Gerhard Kulzer]

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------- Additional Comments From gerhard kulzer net  2007-04-11 10:13 -------
Am Wednesday 11 April 2007 schrieb Arnd Baecker:
> I think that this mock-up lacks the most important bit: to compare
> several (2, 3, ...) pictures side-by-side, like the second one of #10,
> with linked zooming and panning to judge about sharpness etc,
> but maybe I am missing something (it is not yet in svn to test, right?)


I agree with Arnd, direct comparison is paramount for a light table. (The
other functions [close-up inspection] of a real light table of the past are
covered by the great zoom functions, that work perfect after the last patch).

Gerhard
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------- Additional Comments From mikmach wp pl  2007-04-11 10:24 -------

> This is my first moc-up of a possible light table in albumgui.
>
> On the left, a new sidebar tab named "Light Table" appear. It include a
> thumbbar view instance (same than showfoto) where you can drag and drop
> image
> from album view. The Light Table view sound like a virtual album where
> you put
> the picture to compares.
>
> On the center, the current Preview mode witch zoom/pan the current
> selected
> picture on light table.
>
> Current problem is than thumbbar view has a fixed size. If this first
> light
> table approach is fine for you, i will working on thummbar to perform auto
> resizing of content depending of sidebar size...

Looks good.

I am not sure about method of LT population. Wouldn't it be
easier/faster to populate it automatically by showing current selection
from album? It will limit LT only to current Album view but it includes
also Tags, Date and Searches.

Most LT comparisons are done for very similar images which will probably
from the same album/tag/date. I would view LT as fast temporary tag.
What other users think?

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-04-11 10:28 -------
To Arnd, #13 :

>I think that this mock-up lacks the most important bit: to compare
>several (2, 3, ...) pictures side-by-side, like the second one of #10,
>with linked zooming and panning to judge about sharpness etc,
>but maybe I am missing something (it is not yet in svn to test, right?)

This first moc-up only introduce the way to place somewhere the pictures to compare in the Light Table. The way to display picture on preview is a second pass, especially how to render preview :

- Simple Preview (like now),
- Side By Side preview,
- On mouse over Preview,
etc.

>The thumbbar to the left looks fine to me.

>Gilles, I think this will be (at least to me) one of the
>most important new features
>for digikam and it seems to be a non-trivial one to get it right,
>so it might take a couple of iterations until everyone
>is really happy with it ;-) ...

sure. I will progress step by step with this feature.

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-04-11 10:32 -------
To Mik, #15 :

>I am not sure about method of LT population. Wouldn't it be
>easier/faster to populate it automatically by showing current selection
>from album?

Well it simple :

1/ you can drag and drop the selection from and album to LT sidebar icon.
2/ use the new option "put on LT" from album view pop-up menu.

>It will limit LT only to current Album view but it includes
>also Tags, Date and Searches.

no. Thumbbar work with KURL. we can put images from everywhere.

Gilles
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------- Additional Comments From mikmach wp pl  2007-04-11 10:34 -------
> covered by the great zoom functions, that work perfect after the last
> patch).


While I am not afraid for multiple comparisons in main view (Gilles post
to Marcel few days ago) I see one problem with zoom. While it is great
function for regular use it uses some downscaled version of image. For
real comparison when you need to compare minor details down to pixel
level it is not good enough. If I misunderstood Gilles post from
yesterday(? - sorry, writing from work and cannot give proper
quotations) I would be very happy.

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------- Additional Comments From Julien.Narboux inria fr  2007-04-11 10:39 -------
> - Simple Preview (like now),
> - Side By Side preview,
> - On mouse over Preview,

Gilles, why not use the same widget as the one for the preview for filters ? it could be generalised for n pictures.
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------- Additional Comments From mikmach wp pl  2007-04-11 10:41 -------
#17 Gilles:

> 2/ use the new option "put on LT" from album view pop-up menu.
Would it be possible to make an option: "Automatically put selection in LT" ?

> no. Thumbbar work with KURL. we can put images from everywhere.
My proposition would limit places of origin. Your solution gives more flexibility but slows down workflow (IMO).
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[Arnd Baecker]

> I am not sure about method of LT population. Wouldn't it be
> easier/faster to populate it automatically by showing current selection
> from album?

Sounds rather efficient: just select and one keypress (whatever
that will be ;-) brings one into the LT mode with those images.

> It will limit LT only to current Album view but it includes
> also Tags, Date and Searches.

I think that this would be fine (and not a real limitation)

> Most LT comparisons are done for very similar images which will probably
> from the same album/tag/date. I would view LT as fast temporary tag.
> What other users think?

It is behind the scenes to the user, so that's fine.
At some later point a workflow for selecting/rejecting images
from the lightable should be added (maybe the rating CTRL-1 CTRL 5)
is already enough.

In the longer run: the idea of stacks of images
(described in point4 of
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/11/01/top-ten-aperture-features.html
)
seems also relevant in this context and should presumably kept in mind.
(Of course, grouping of images has been mentioned as a wish
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121310
before, but would require changes to the digikam database)
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[Arnd Baecker]

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------- Additional Comments From arnd.baecker web de  2007-04-11 11:24 -------
> I am not sure about method of LT population. Wouldn't it be
> easier/faster to populate it automatically by showing current selection
> from album?


Sounds rather efficient: just select and one keypress (whatever
that will be ;-) brings one into the LT mode with those images.

> It will limit LT only to current Album view but it includes
> also Tags, Date and Searches.


I think that this would be fine (and not a real limitation)

> Most LT comparisons are done for very similar images which will probably
> from the same album/tag/date. I would view LT as fast temporary tag.
> What other users think?


It is behind the scenes to the user, so that's fine.
At some later point a workflow for selecting/rejecting images
from the lightable should be added (maybe the rating CTRL-1 CTRL 5)
is already enough.

In the longer run: the idea of stacks of images
(described in point4 of
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/11/01/top-ten-aperture-features.html
)
seems also relevant in this context and should presumably kept in mind.
(Of course, grouping of images has been mentioned as a wish
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121310
before, but would require changes to the digikam database)
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caulier.gilles gmail com changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Attachment #20223|0                           |1
        is obsolete|                            |
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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-04-11 11:47 -------
Created an attachment (id=20226)
 --> (http://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=20226&action=view)
Second Light Table sidebar with content resizable...
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[Arnd Baecker]

Nice!
A minor detail: as it is only one vertical
sequence of thumbs, one could reduce the spacing between the
images (I don't think that there is a  need to leave
space for a  portrait image).
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[Arnd Baecker]

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------- Additional Comments From arnd.baecker web de  2007-04-11 12:11 -------
Nice!
A minor detail: as it is only one vertical
sequence of thumbs, one could reduce the spacing between the
images (I don't think that there is a  need to leave
space for a  portrait image).
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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-04-11 13:49 -------
To Arnd, #23:

The resizable ThumbBar implementation is in svn now. Showfoto is patched to use it. Load a collection of images in Showfoto and resize the bar to look how it's work...

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-04-11 13:58 -------
To Julien, #19:

>Gilles, why not use the same widget as the one for the preview for filters ? it >could be generalised for n pictures.

Yes, this is the way to do... but the current code of the widget witch give the comparison tools in image plugins depand of core image editor. We cannot use it directly in album gui.

I need to refactorize the code in another way : make a generic comparison tools implementation undependant of core editor and create new derivate class to use it in image plugins.

This a tedious coding activity. I need more time. I will do in first a LT without comparison tools. Just a pan/scrolling mode, and when this one will be finalized and tested indeep, i will code the comparison tools part... I'm not sure to do it for 0.9.2...

Of course, if somebody is interressed to help me to implement it, let's me hear. This will save time for me and speed up development...

Guy, it's time to learn C++/Qt/KDE coding (:=)))

Gilles
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[Arnd Baecker]

OK - works very well and fast!!

Only going from one image to the next (and back-and-forth), takes
longer than for example in gqview - caching is not yet used here, right?)

Minor point: Even in fit to window mode, the small cross in
the lower right-corner (to pan the window) is shown.
In this case one can move the red-white enclosed box by around
2 pixels (either horizontally or vertically); might be some
round-off error.

Second minor point is the vertical spacing
between images in landscape orientation: is it technically possible
to have different vertical sizes for portrait and landscape
images?

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[Arnd Baecker]

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------- Additional Comments From arnd.baecker web de  2007-04-11 15:46 -------
OK - works very well and fast!!

Only going from one image to the next (and back-and-forth), takes
longer than for example in gqview - caching is not yet used here, right?)

Minor point: Even in fit to window mode, the small cross in
the lower right-corner (to pan the window) is shown.
In this case one can move the red-white enclosed box by around
2 pixels (either horizontally or vertically); might be some
round-off error.

Second minor point is the vertical spacing
between images in landscape orientation: is it technically possible
to have different vertical sizes for portrait and landscape
images?
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[Gerhard Kulzer]

Am Wednesday 11 April 2007 schrieb Arnd Baecker:

>
> It is behind the scenes to the user, so that's fine.
> At some later point a workflow for selecting/rejecting images
> from the lightable should be added (maybe the rating CTRL-1 CTRL 5)
> is already enough.
>
> In the longer run: the idea of stacks of images
> (described in point4 of
> http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/11/01/top-ten-aperture-features.html
> )

I was just listening to this podcast about aperture:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/12/21/inside_aperture_podcast-5.html

It is really appalling to hear Apple sell the stuff we have implemented in
digiKam since quite a while as the newest and latest hype on the market. It
is really time that we hit the big market and bust their fat asses :-)

Gerhard

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Hakuna matata
http://www.gerhard.fr

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles gmail com  2007-04-11 15:59 -------
>Only going from one image to the next (and back-and-forth), takes
>longer than for example in gqview - caching is not yet used here, right?)

You want mean, if there is a cache system in showfoto/image editor to load images ? Well yes, there is. I let's Marcel explain to you how it's work. This part have been coded by him (:=)))...

About others point, let's me take a look...

Gilles
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[Gerhard Kulzer]

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------- Additional Comments From gerhard kulzer net  2007-04-11 16:00 -------
Am Wednesday 11 April 2007 schrieb Arnd Baecker:

>
> It is behind the scenes to the user, so that's fine.
> At some later point a workflow for selecting/rejecting images
> from the lightable should be added (maybe the rating CTRL-1 CTRL 5)
> is already enough.
>
> In the longer run: the idea of stacks of images
> (described in point4 of
> http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/11/01/top-ten-aperture-features.html
> )

I was just listening to this podcast about aperture:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/12/21/inside_aperture_podcast-5.html

It is really appalling to hear Apple sell the stuff we have implemented in
digiKam since quite a while as the newest and latest hype on the market. It
is really time that we hit the big market and bust their fat asses :-)

Gerhard
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