[Digikam-devel] [Bug 126149] New: Camera stores both jpeg and raw (nef), handle both as one

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           Summary: Camera stores both jpeg and raw (nef), handle both as
                    one
           Product: digikam
           Version: 0.8.0
          Platform: unspecified
        OS/Version: Linux
            Status: NEW
          Severity: wishlist
          Priority: NOR
         Component: general
        AssignedTo: digikam-devel kde org
        ReportedBy: roger.larsson norran net


Version:           0.8.0 (using KDE 3.4.2 Level "b" , SUSE 10.0)
Compiler:          Target: i586-suse-linux
OS:                Linux (i686) release 2.6.13-15.8-default

My camera can be configured to store both
jpeg and raw (nef) at the same time. Like this
rln_0220.jpg
rln_0220.nef

So for every picture I have both an JPEG
and a raw. (The raw does not show properly
but that is another issue)

Anyway my wish is to be able to configure
digikam to view only the jpeg, but let some
operations work on both.
(NEF should be viewed as a negative and jpg as
the processed image.)
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[F.J.Cruz]

---- Roger Larsson <[hidden email]> escribió:

> ------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
> You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.
>          
> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126149         
>            Summary: Camera stores both jpeg and raw (nef), handle both as
>                     one
>            Product: digikam
>            Version: 0.8.0
>           Platform: unspecified
>         OS/Version: Linux
>             Status: NEW
>           Severity: wishlist
>           Priority: NOR
>          Component: general
>         AssignedTo: digikam-devel kde org
>         ReportedBy: roger.larsson norran net
>
>
> Version:           0.8.0 (using KDE 3.4.2 Level "b" , SUSE 10.0)
> Compiler:          Target: i586-suse-linux
> OS:                Linux (i686) release 2.6.13-15.8-default
>
> My camera can be configured to store both
> jpeg and raw (nef) at the same time. Like this
> rln_0220.jpg
> rln_0220.nef
>
> So for every picture I have both an JPEG
> and a raw. (The raw does not show properly
> but that is another issue)
>
> Anyway my wish is to be able to configure
> digikam to view only the jpeg, but let some
> operations work on both.
> (NEF should be viewed as a negative and jpg as
> the processed image.)
> _______________________________________________

I don't know wich model  your camera is , but thinking it works in the same way that Nikon D50 does, I think that you said, maybe make no sense. These are my reasons:

- The jpeg file is a low resolution/low quality pictrue. On the other hand, this file has suffered some adjusts that the camera makes on all the images that have been captured in other formats that are not RAW one. Moreover this file is a 8-bits image.
- The RAW  file is the image as is capured by the camera sensor, this is, without any type of transform or adjust. This file is a 16-bits picture (well, really, it has 12-bits per pixel).
- In short, we have two differents files: one of them is a low quality and transformed image (jpeg) and the other one  is a high quality and without any adjust picture (nef), this is, the file contents the raw data of the subject as is caputred by the camera sensor, so, the changes you make to one of them don't produce the same results on the other.

PS: excuse my poor english.

Paco Cruz.

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[F.J.Cruz]

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------- Additional Comments From fj.cruz supercable es  2006-04-24 11:48 -------
---- Roger Larsson <roger.larsson norran net> escribió:
[bugs.kde.org quoted mail]
I don't know wich model  your camera is , but thinking it works in the same way that Nikon D50 does, I think that you said, maybe make no sense. These are my reasons:

- The jpeg file is a low resolution/low quality pictrue. On the other hand, this file has suffered some adjusts that the camera makes on all the images that have been captured in other formats that are not RAW one. Moreover this file is a 8-bits image.
- The RAW  file is the image as is capured by the camera sensor, this is, without any type of transform or adjust. This file is a 16-bits picture (well, really, it has 12-bits per pixel).
- In short, we have two differents files: one of them is a low quality and transformed image (jpeg) and the other one  is a high quality and without any adjust picture (nef), this is, the file contents the raw data of the subject as is caputred by the camera sensor, so, the changes you make to one of them don't produce the same results on the other.

PS: excuse my poor english.

Paco Cruz.
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------- Additional Comments From roger.larsson norran net  2006-04-24 13:53 -------
I was not specific enough.

You never modify the image data contents of the NEF!
But tags and possibly even EXIF information.
I do not like to have to select twice as many files before each tag assign.
Nor do I like to have to enter the same note twice.

The same for rename, move, delete, and possibly even copy.

Maybe a toggle in the toolbar to select if RAW+JPEG should be viewed as "one".

Any image modifications of the JPEG can be viewed as a fresh processing
from the raw (NEF).
(Convert to black and white can probably some time in the future use the
 raw as source.)
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[Guillaume Laurent]

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------- Additional Comments From glaurent telegraph-road org  2006-04-24 14:28 -------
I think the user is asking for something like Photoshop Element's "image stacks", in which you can put several similar images together (like different shoots of a same object, or different attemps at retouching it, or indeed, a raw image and its jpeg version). See here for a more thorough description :

http://oceania.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=29049

(I'd find such a feature very useful too)
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------- Additional Comments From bluedrago web de  2006-04-24 17:16 -------
This feature could be really useful in this way:
If you want to edit it, the raw is always opened and settings changed so it looks the same as the jpeg. With "looks the same" I mean in applied color curve, gamma etc. Not pixel-wise, as the interpolation done by the pc is better, but all other settings like white balance, curve, profile etc. should be read out of the raw file, if possible, so we can produce images that look like on the preview of the tft on your camera. Then, if you want to edit it again, it opens the raw file with the settings you (or the camera) used for the jpeg..
If this would work, it would be really great. Unfortunately, at least nikon's *.nef format isn't fully known yet, and how to read all options from it correctly. There is at least no opensource program doing it that the raw converted picture looks like raw converted with nikon's software, or the jpeg the camera would produce... If we(or rather the people coding, as I'm too stupid) would come to that point, it would be very useful to stack pictures, and save each jpegs/pngs/etc. settings and then reopen the raw with that settings to further edit it, without loosing quality.
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------- Additional Comments From roger.larsson norran net  2006-04-24 21:20 -------
Re: Nikon EXIF format:
EXIF.py from http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/digital_camera.html

Works quite well.
I do have an patch that adds
- EXIF 2.2 tags
- no crash on NEF files (uninitialized variable)
- AFFocusPosition (D200 11 points + 7 points)
I have also recognized a tag that I think is a the look up table (LUT, curve)
Problem is that the author of EXIF.py does not read mail now due to spam...
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------- Additional Comments From roger.larsson norran net  2006-04-26 12:33 -------
Some additional comments.

One problem is probably the fact that NEFs from Nikon
are identified as TIFF files, i.e. images in their own
right...

Found another even better EXIF reader (made in Perl)
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/

This tool reports the MIME type as
MIME Type                       : image/x-raw

Modifying the association helps gwenview a lot.
And could also help digikam.
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[Gilles Caulier]

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------- Additional Comments From caulier.gilles free fr  2006-04-26 19:08 -------
In digiKam implementation from svn trunk branch, i have fixed this RAW mime type problem. All work fine now.

About metadata, We using Exiv2 library now, not libexif. Using current Exiv2 implementation (not the last 0.9.1 release), a new TIFF/EP file parser can handle EXIF/MARKERNOTE/IPTC from TIFF, DNG, CRW, CR2, NEF, PAF, etc. RAW file formats based on TIFF/EP. The parser need to be improved, but the results are impressive.

http://www.digikam.org/?q=node/81

Gilles Caulier
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[Gilles Caulier]

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caulier.gilles free fr changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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          Component|general                     |Albums GUI
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arnd.baecker web de changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |rene colorcube de



------- Additional Comments From arnd.baecker web de  2007-07-15 10:53 -------
*** Bug 147886 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
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mikmach wp pl changed:

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                 CC|                            |cnamster gmail com



------- Additional Comments From mikmach wp pl  2007-07-16 22:05 -------
*** Bug 147933 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
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[dblevitan]

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------- Additional Comments From david dlevitan com  2007-09-08 20:33 -------
Would it be possible to at least have the option to enable this kind of logic:

If there are two files called something.jpg and something.raw (where something is a name and raw is a raw extension), do one of:
- Show only raw
- Show only JPEG
- Show both

depending on an option selection.

I don't even really care if the JPEGs don't get displayed or tagged or whatnot. I mostly save them because they take up very little space and are good for previews on computers that don't have a fast RAW viewer (like digikam) installed. I never use the JPEGs for actual prints (I always convert the RAW into JPEG for that purpose). But this options would really, really help me (and probably a lot of others who have the same problem).
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