Digikam IPTC
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Hallo everybody,
I probably won't make myself very popular with this but here goes. I am a professional photographer working in Berlin. I previously used macs up to system 9 and windows xp. I am a freelancer so I have to look after myself by and large when things go wrong. I decided to check out Linux using the CT package after I had a head crash on my laptop and needed to install a system. Naturally I am interested in finding an alternative to Photoshop and Lightroom as highest priority and thought that with Ubuntu Linux had finally got near enough to be useful to me. Generally speaking Digikam is very good apart from the backwood aesthetics of penguins peering cheerily over cameras, which I can frankly live without. My main problem is the IPTC. I still have not found a way to coherently work with this despite having spent six weeks on and off with the problem. It begins with the preferences; you have to switch IPTC on. This is for me the first major "policy statement". As a professional I could just about accept that you could switch IPTC off but as a default this is just not serious. I now find bits of information (the copyright details in prefs) in the IPTC but am not quite sure how they got there. Captions have appeared from photos which already had captions after being imported into Digikam. Using Tags I have still not found an intuitive way of adding information. Maybe I just have a blind spot - if so then tell me what I am doing wrong. Until then I have to reiterate that Lightzone still is the more mature product regards, Michael Hughes -- visit my web site at www.hughes-photography.eu _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, michael hughes wrote:
> Hallo everybody, > > I probably won't make myself very popular with this but here goes. I am a > professional photographer working in Berlin. I previously used macs up to > system 9 and windows xp. I am a freelancer so I have to look after myself by > and large when things go wrong. I decided to check out Linux using the CT > package after I had a head crash on my laptop and needed to install a > system. Naturally I am interested in finding an alternative to Photoshop and > Lightroom as highest priority and thought that with Ubuntu Linux had finally > got near enough to be useful to me. Generally speaking Digikam is very good > apart from the backwood aesthetics of penguins peering cheerily over > cameras, which I can frankly live without. Good contributions for a new logo are welcome. > My main problem is the IPTC. I still have not found a way to coherently work > with this despite having spent six weeks on and off with the problem. It > begins with the preferences; you have to switch IPTC on. This is for me the > first major "policy statement". As a professional I could just about accept > that you could switch IPTC off but as a default this is just not serious. People have different preferences and some don't want their images to be modified in any way. Therefore this is the chosen default. Of course, one might think of running a configuration wizard on the very first run, in which such things can be configured. Feel free to file a wish in the bug tracker. > I > now find bits of information (the copyright details in prefs) in the IPTC > but am not quite sure how they got there. Captions have appeared from photos > which already had captions after being imported into Digikam. See the documentation, eg http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/using-setup.html#setup-embeddedinfo http://docs.kde.org/kde3/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/using-sidebar.html#using$ > Using Tags I > have still not found an intuitive way of adding information. Maybe I just > have a blind spot - if so then tell me what I am doing wrong. More precise information is needed: what are you trying to do? And in which way are you trying to do this with digikam? > Until then I > have to reiterate that Lightzone still is the more mature product Honestly, don't you think that such statements could be seen as offensive to the hard-working developers of digikam? **Constructive** criticism is very welcome, but general statements like this don't lead to anything (apart from your e-mails being left un-answered in the future...). Arnd _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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Dear Arnd,
I suppose you define "constructive" do you? What is "offensive" about general statements? My remarks come from the position of being a professional photographer, I would have thought such contributions would be acceptable even though they are not couched in Digikam developers language. Your reaction seems to me that of the jealous father who can bear no criticisms of their child. And your bracketed threat I find absolutely pathetic Michael On 18/02/2008, Arnd Baecker <[hidden email]> wrote: On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, michael hughes wrote: -- visit my web site at www.hughes-photography.eu _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Arnd Baecker
Thankyou for the links: I had of course read all that and it is now evident that in Digikam it is not possible to write captions into the IPTC. My point is proved; Lightzone is a more mature product as it can do this and handle TIFFS.
Michael p.s. don't bother answering if this offends you! M On 18/02/2008, Arnd Baecker <[hidden email]> wrote: On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, michael hughes wrote: -- visit my web site at www.hughes-photography.eu _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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2008/2/18, michael hughes <[hidden email]>:
Thankyou for the links: I had of course read all that and it is now evident that in Digikam it is not possible to write captions into the IPTC. My point is proved; Lightzone is a more mature product as it can do this and handle TIFFS. Before to said than digiKam is less mature than a proprietary program, just try to use it in the right way and compare what is possible to do. - digiKam support IPTC and of course can store caption in IPTC tags ! - You can set IPTC caption in batch mode if you want. - LightZone is a comercial program. LightZone team is payed for that. digiKam team is an open source program. We don't recieve money for that, excepted donation of course. We working on this project on available free time... - Light zone is not digiKam. The features are not the same ! Gilles Caulier _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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Interesting to receive the second email. It seems I was right when I suggested that I would not be making myself popular! Looks very much like that the people who are developing digikam don't like outsiders who don't speak linux and merely want a programme to do a job. That criticism produces such an allergic reaction makes me wonder. To put forward the argument that one is doing it in ones free time and is not paid does not seem to me to be particularly coherent. Either you do it because you want to or you do it to get paid, there is no excuse for doing anything badly or, more to the point, expecting to avoid crticism.
In fact there is a very constructive point to this "debate". Unfortunately you do not appear to be able to perceive it. Michael Hughes On 18/02/2008, Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- visit my web site at www.hughes-photography.eu _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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> In fact there is a very constructive point to this "debate".
> Unfortunately you do not appear to be able to perceive it. How true. It is not possible to discuss with someone who is not able to provide complete, believable scenario of use, read help, write coherent suggestions about workflow and/or interface. m. ---------------------------------------------------- P.S. Zobacz koniecznie polską wersję Jozina z Bazin! Naprawdę świetny kabaret :) - Kliknij: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2FPojedynek-nie-na-zarty.html&sid=228 _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
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Hash: SHA1 Michael, as I am using both programs I feel to be in the position to comment on this. * digikam and lightzone are completely different programs. lightzone is an excellent raw converter with wonderful features to manipulate shots in very intuitive ways and write high quality jpeg and tif files, whilst digikam is a complete suite of foto asset management and picture processing inclusive exporting to a whole bunch of formats. Of course everybody is allowed to compare apples and pears, but - sorry for that - - it does not make too much sense. * lightzone has an extremely limited set of iptc operations, 6 fields in total with to arrow operators allowing to fill in defaults. digikam has 8 screens for iptc data editing (probably more the 30 fields - I did not count) plus presets to be filled in automatically. So your criticism of this point does not seem to bee too valid. What really put's me off is that someone in his very first post picks out a minor point, not even well expressed, even less backed by facts, and does not formulate his concerns as questions or recommendations but bluntly abates something he seemingly does not know very well. Sorry, but on this basis discussion seems useless. Nobody recommends you to use digikam if you have the feeling it does not suit your needs - the world is full of programs, so go and pick. If you just want to act as a troll, go elsewhere. Regards - Markus Spring -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHuqMWxxUzQSse11ARAmf6AJ4s0a/iLnnvWOpl+dG7Gk40BJcN+gCaA2ed yTmz5NrDdO/N+PsKL/TDPHo= =zkGB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Bugzilla from mikmach@wp.pl
Well, well, someone else is feeling insulted! Dear Mikolaj if you had bothered to read the beginning of this instead of just piling in in the middle, you would have noticed that I have indeed been talking about interface (non-intuitive), workflow (having to switch IPTC on), as for believable scenarios how do you like this; I have taken my pictures and am sitting in my car with my laptop downloading my files. I have chosen the 10 or so I am going to email. To save time I have taken jpegs not RAW, now I have managed to get my copyright etc.into the IPTC - how the hell to I get the captions in? Write them into Tags? It makes no sense to me. What I need are fields with the important points to write into and on the right where IPTC sits.
Nice to see you picking up a new word like coherent though, how would you know whether you can discuss with me? You just sailed into the argument, defending your friends, up until now none of you has discussed with me, I've been threatened, lectured to, told off, fobbed off, talked down to and dismissed as being unconstructive. Guess what? I may not know much about Linux but the more Linux gets taken up by people and the more Linux wants to be taken up by the masses, the more people like me you will have to deal with; people who want programmes which enable them to do the job they have to do. Getting stuffy and insulted is not helpful. Now try and use your new word to give me an answer. michael On 19/02/2008, Mikołaj Machowski <[hidden email]> wrote: > In fact there is a very constructive point to this "debate". -- visit my web site at www.hughes-photography.eu _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Markus Spring
Markus,
you started well and then ended up being as dismissive as the others. I am not even sure what a troll is. All I have said is that I have not worked out how to write into digikams IPTC apart from the preferences bit. I don't need more than the IPTC which LightZone offers - but it is there where I need it. I find it incredible to notice how sensitive you all are. You think I am wasting your time, you think I am an ignorant troublemaker trying to make a point. To quote Kurt Crömer "eee? guck im Spiegel, det ist eee" Michael On 19/02/2008, Markus Spring <[hidden email]> wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- -- visit my web site at www.hughes-photography.eu _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
michael hughes a écrit :
> Well, well, someone else is feeling insulted! try to be a little more constructive... for example, google is a good friend: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/digikam-users/2005-November/000562.html could send you to mapivi, which is may be better fitted for your needs than digikam may be some people here can explain how one can edit iptc tables from digikam... for example images/metadata/edit iptc that google gave me very easily... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
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Hash: SHA1 OK, I am really longanimous... ;) michael hughes wrote: | ... All I have said is that I have not | worked out how to write into digikams IPTC apart from the preferences You find this in <Bild - Metadaten - IPTC bearbeiten> | I find it incredible to notice how sensitive you all are. You think I am | wasting your time, you think I am an ignorant troublemaker trying to Sorry. You started the thread. You did not say "I can't find this or that" or "How can I accomplish this or that" but made statements about maturity (if I remember correctly) and compared two extremely different programs | make a point. To quote Kurt Crömer "eee? guck im Spiegel, det ist eee" Yeah. Be polite, ask in friendly words and many of us will offer their help Forgive my ignorance: I don't know Kurt Crömer... Best - Markus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHurZXxxUzQSse11ARAuu+AJ9sADLO68f2tUD/kcWthbHRJfHLcwCeIji4 wLo00tkEkHXDnoZNnUBSYCM= =9DKE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Markus Spring
Hello Michael;
michael hughes wrote: > All I have said is that I have not > worked out how to write into digikams IPTC apart from the preferences > bit. I don't need more than the IPTC which LightZone offers - but it is > there where I need it. > ----------- > Michael It's not what you said that upsets people - it's how you said it. You have to consider too that many of the developers and users come from different cultural background than you, they might not even have American/English as their native language. So, what you thought as being imaginative and useful comment, ended up by being seen as arrogant and/or plain rude. All mailing list users should read at least once the 10 commandments of "net etiquette", say this one at: http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/atchron/96/netbook/hcinetq.htm The fourth commandment may be of interest. Regards, Sveinn í Felli _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
On Tuesday 19 February 2008 michael hughes wrote:
> Interesting to receive the second email. It seems I was right when I > suggested that I would not be making myself popular! Looks very much like > that the people who are developing digikam don't like outsiders who don't > speak linux and merely want a programme to do a job. That criticism produces > such an allergic reaction makes me wonder. To put forward the argument that > one is doing it in ones free time and is not paid does not seem to me to be > particularly coherent. Either you do it because you want to or you do it to > get paid, there is no excuse for doing anything badly or, more to the point, > expecting to avoid crticism. > > In fact there is a very constructive point to this "debate". Unfortunately > you do not appear to be able to perceive it. > > > Michael Hughes So my advice to you is : stop trolling. Maybe you're to young, and if not, you should see a therapist (I grant you that most of them are bad, but if you really want to change, you'll find a good one). Good bye (or I should rather say 'Good buy Lightone') Gerhard > > On 18/02/2008, Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2008/2/18, michael hughes <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > Thankyou for the links: I had of course read all that and it is now > > > evident that in Digikam it is not possible to write captions into the IPTC. > > > My point is proved; Lightzone is a more mature product as it can do this and > > > handle TIFFS. > > > > > > Before to said than digiKam is less mature than a proprietary program, > > just try to use it in the right way and compare what is possible to do. > > > > - digiKam support IPTC and of course can store caption in IPTC tags ! > > - You can set IPTC caption in batch mode if you want. > > - LightZone is a comercial program. LightZone team is payed for that. > > digiKam team is an open source program. We don't recieve money for that, > > excepted donation of course. We working on this project on available free > > time... > > - Light zone is not digiKam. The features are not the same ! > > > > Thanks for your very contructive remarks... > > > > Gilles Caulier > > > > > > -- ><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·... ><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·...¸ ><((((º> http://www.gerhard.fr _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
On 19/02/2008, michael hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Markus, > > you started well and then ended up being as dismissive as the others. I am > not even sure what a troll is. All I have said is that I have not worked out > how to write into digikams IPTC apart from the preferences bit. I don't need > more than the IPTC which LightZone offers - but it is there where I need it. > > I find it incredible to notice how sensitive you all are. You think I am > wasting your time, you think I am an ignorant troublemaker trying to make a > point. To quote Kurt Crömer "eee? guck im Spiegel, det ist eee" Michael, I know how you feel that you wrote to the list with constructive criticism and everyone started yelling at you. You are experiencing the same culture clash that most people experience in the first few times they write to an open source application's mailing list. Let me explain some things, and know that I am both on your side (as a new Linux user who has gone through the culture clash as well) and on the Digikam team's side (as I know what they expect). Open source developers seem to love criticism, but of a very specific type. Very specific comments such as "feature XXX does not work in an intuitive way, a better way would be AAA" or "feature YYY performs in the reverse fashion as the industry standard, which is BBB" are very welcome and will make you many friends quickly. Saying blanket statements such as "your product is immature compared to MegaDollarsSolution" is akin to saying "your product sucks". Of course you could not know that, in fact, it may seem to you that the Digikam developers are being rather sensitive. After reading these lists for about a year now, trust me, they are not being overly sensitive. They are being impatient, and that's fine. They expect that if you are going to say that their product is immature, that you will give very specific examples. Now here is another fork. You are probably saying that you _did_ give examples in your comments regarding IPTC. The thing is, in your first email, that all you did was mention the problems and then mention that Digikam is comparatively immature. Please, be a little thick skinned (this goes for the Digikam devs as well) and give a very specific example of the workflow that you, as a professional, would expect to add IPTC info. I'm sure that the devs would appreciate it, and if need be, I'll help file the bug that will request the feature. Filing bugs is the accepted way of initiating change in Digikam or any other FOSS project. Note that if you think the devs on the mailing list are sensitive, then you'll need to tread extra lightly in Bugzilla. I suggest that in bugzilla one not mention competing projects, rather, just mention the features you need and expected implementation. In any case, I don't represent anything other than myself, but as a fellow user I welcome you to Digikam and Linux in general. After some time the culture will become more obvious and you will see why it is the way it is. And then you'll write a similar letter to another frustrated new user. Feel free to contact me off list if you have any questions but don't want to risk the wrath of the elders here, in regards to Digikam, KDE, or Linux in general. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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Thank you for your sensitive and intelligent reply and for your offer of help. I don't mind a fight, in fact I sometimes enjoy it. The email that started all this, in case you haven't actually seen it, here it is;
Hallo everybody, I probably won't make myself very popular with this but here goes. I am a professional photographer working in Berlin. I previously used macs up to system 9 and windows xp. I am a freelancer so I have to look after myself by and large when things go wrong. I decided to check out Linux using the CT package after I had a head crash on my laptop and needed to install a system. Naturally I am interested in finding an alternative to Photoshop and Lightroom as highest priority and thought that with Ubuntu Linux had finally got near enough to be useful to me. Generally speaking Digikam is very good apart from the backwood aesthetics of penguins peering cheerily over cameras, which I can frankly live without. My main problem is the IPTC. I still have not found a way to coherently work with this despite having spent six weeks on and off with the problem. It begins with the preferences; you have to switch IPTC on. This is for me the first major "policy statement". As a professional I could just about accept that you could switch IPTC off but as a default this is just not serious. I now find bits of information (the copyright details in prefs) in the IPTC but am not quite sure how they got there. Captions have appeared from photos which already had captions after being imported into Digikam. Using Tags I have still not found an intuitive way of adding information. Maybe I just have a blind spot - if so then tell me what I am doing wrong. Until then I have to reiterate that Lightzone still is the more mature product regards, Michael Hughes I really don't think this is "trolling", nor do I find it rude. I am english, living in Germany with a german wife and a kid that goes to an american school. I speak three languages and travel extensively all over the world. To refer to cultural insensitivity is a laugh. Oh and by the way I am having therapy and the guy is very good. Michael On 19/02/2008, Dotan Cohen <[hidden email]> wrote: On 19/02/2008, michael hughes <[hidden email]> wrote: -- visit my web site at www.hughes-photography.eu _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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michael hughes a écrit :
> intuitive way of adding information. Maybe I just have a blind spot - if > so then tell me what I am doing wrong. Until then I have to reiterate > that Lightzone still is the more mature product quoting this from your first mail, as you did yourself shows all the problem. the first part of the sentence is the good one. You don't find something and ask for help. but then you make some sort of blackmail, trying to start a discussion on "what have the bigger one". This is wrong. wrong because you effectively had a blind spot, that is digikam can handle iptc tags and wrong because there is no need to punch people you ask help from. all this added to the fact that google gave me the answer in seconds... then, is the way digikam handle iptc suit your needs is all an other story... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 03:01:07PM +0100, michael hughes wrote:
> > Thank you for your sensitive and intelligent reply and for your offer > of help. I don't mind a fight, in fact I sometimes enjoy it. The email Well that's a problem for a start, who wants "a fight"? Just try telling the developers what specific improvements would help digikam and all will be well. :-) -- Chris Green _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
michael hughes wrote:
> > > I really don't think this is "trolling", nor do I find it rude. I am > english, living in Germany with a german wife and a kid that goes to > an american school. I speak three languages and travel extensively all > over the world. To refer to cultural insensitivity is a laugh. Oh and > by the way I am having therapy and the guy is very good. Oh heck, I'm a citizen of two countries, speak 3 languages, and I've lived in Europe, Asia, and America. All that means is that I've had the opportunity to be a clod on three continents, not just in my homeland. Now back to the original post. The difference is this: Q. Digikam sucks; X Commercial App is better. A. OK, go use X Commercial App and don't bother us. --or-- Q. Digikam sucks because it doesn't have the following essential (to me) functionality. I've looked in the docs and on the web, and I can't find how to make it work. Here's specifically what I did. It would be great if it could be added because: blah. Here's where it needs to be added and here's the benefit that would be gained. A. Great, we're on it. Or great, but we don't have the resources. Or great, added to the wish list. You chose the first option. That will not get you what you want. Open source developers don't get paid, and thus they don't have to make anyone happy except for themselves. You want new features, you have to get buy in. Your initial email was not a way to get buy-in. _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by michael hughes-10
On 19/02/2008, michael hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> My main problem is the IPTC. I still have not found a way to coherently work > with this despite having spent six weeks on and off with the problem. It > begins with the preferences; you have to switch IPTC on. This is for me the > first major "policy statement". As a professional I could just about accept > that you could switch IPTC off but as a default this is just not serious. I > now find bits of information (the copyright details in prefs) in the IPTC > but am not quite sure how they got there. Captions have appeared from photos > which already had captions after being imported into Digikam. Using Tags I > have still not found an intuitive way of adding information. Maybe I just > have a blind spot - if so then tell me what I am doing wrong. Until then I > have to reiterate that Lightzone still is the more mature product Problems (correct me if I misunderstood): 1) IPTC must be switched on. 2) Unexplained information written to IPTC data (copyright details and captions). 3) No intuitive way to add information using Tags My replies to each individually: 1) IPTC must be switched on. While this may seem "not serious" to one who uses IPTC as a vital work component, a more serious issue would be if Digikam altered photos without the user expecting such. As Digikam is intended for use by a wide range of users, including those new to such applications, altering photos without the user explicitly requesting it could be dangerous. As professional users (those who care about IPTC) will take the time to more thoroughly explore their options, they can discover and enable IPTC. 2) Unexplained information written to IPTC data (copyright details and captions). Please send to me a photo that displays this property. That is, a photo that you photographed and know that there was no previous IPTC data, that had IPTC data written to it by Digikam by 'accident', or without your doing so. 3) No intuitive way to add information using Tags What information would you like to add? How would you expect that it be added, or how is it adding in an intuitive manner in other software that you are familiar with. Assume that we are _not_ familiar with the other software, and unless it runs on Linux, we cannot even test it. So describe in detail what it does and that feature may very well find it's way into Digikam. Thanks, Michael, for your willingness to help improve Digikam so that it better suits professional photographer's needs. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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