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On 19/02/2008, michael hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I really don't think this is "trolling", nor do I find it rude. I am > english, living in Germany with a german wife and a kid that goes to an > american school. I speak three languages and travel extensively all over the > world. To refer to cultural insensitivity is a laugh. Oh and by the way I am > having therapy and the guy is very good. The problem with "trolling" is the way that it's evolved. To me it is clear that you are not trolling, that's why I decided to answer in the first place. If you go through the archives you will see that I'm rather quite on this list. However, I know that the more experienced in audience will consider you trolling not because of your intention, but rather because you quite unsuspectingly used some key terms that are typical of trolls. For instance, you mentioned problems without proposing a solution. For another, you called the product immature in relation to it's closed source competitor. Those are key traits of trolls, and the highly oversensitive troll detectors went off. That's not your fault, nor the developer's fault. It is the fault of the trolls who brought us to this very sensitive situation. I insist that I can call this a culture clash at point the finger at cultural insensitivity. I also speak three languages, and I've lived in two different countries on two different continents, with two different languages and two different religions. And I insist that this misunderstanding is because there is an unfortunate overlap between the set of things that are fine for you to say and the set of things which will offend the devs. That is called culture clash. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Dotan Cohen
Well said Doton,
I second your thoughts on the subtleties of culture on this mailing list and more importantly your technical insights regarding the issues at hand. Michael Hughes, In case no one has said it, welcome to the digikam mailing list! I'm not offended by your comments in the slightest personally thought I think it is important to understand why others do. People here are looking for very specific information that helps them make digikam better for you.. or if they're not developers they're looking for very specific information so they can help you. It is implied that in doing so they will also benefit themselves. Everyone has extremely limited time and patience for general statements or general value judgements that can be extremely misleading or distracting and very likely not lead to Digikam being in any way better. Hence your comment about the quality of lightroom vs. digikam could be interpreted 18 different ways, none of which were very useful. The truth is they do very different things and have very different technical merits. As someone pointed out it is always apple's and pears. Also as pointed out Digikam compares very favorably on more then one point. None of that side of the conversation (the bulk of the conversation) gets at your particular issues nor informs digikam developers on how they can make digikam even better. Perspective. It's important to note you couldn't even have this sort of direct discussion with the developers for said commercial application and that's precisely why the culture is subtlety and yet very importantly different. There is a culture clash here... a very sharp and well defined sense of netiquette because this is not just a "user group" but a "developer / user group". Most anyone who doesn't regularly participate in developer/user mailing lists for open source apps will run fowl of this netiquette more then once... but the reward for getting familiar with this culture is the ability to participate in a very real and rewarding human scale process of innovation/evolution (aka. user innovation, aka. consumer innovation, though consumer is a misnomer in the open source world) Whether things run smoothly or move as fast as you like in the direction you like you can at least participate and follow this process. This is a sharp counterpoint to commercial software user groups which have a very "us vs. them" mentality. With commercial software you never know what the developers are thinking, whether they care/know what you think, what their intentions are, or what's coming in future releases. Quite simply you're left with the other users to stew, help each other, speculate and if need be bitch about features / problems and hope someone is listening. I can see from your opening email you were coming in with a carrot and a stick thinking people might only give you attention if you picked a big enough fight. This is in it's own very subtle way a form of trolling. To put paraphrase it in my own terms... "If you ignore me and think my perspective unimportant... then that just goes to show why your application sucks." or "Pay attention to me. I matter." Indeed you even admitted in later responses this intent to pick a fight if need be. I don't fault you for it, we all tend to do this a little, especially when we're new and we fear our thoughts will be ignored as is often the case in the commercial software world. The important thing though I believe your intentions are honest and your perspective valuable, but clearly picking fights is not conducive to intelligent discussion of your issues. The stick is not necessary... we're all here for the same reason. Any interesting detail or insight you can provide will meet with a proportioned response. All that being said. While it's interesting I'm not here to discuss the culture of open source software or the netiquette of development mailing lists. I'm reading this thread and responding because as a designer of software/services, a published / yet amateur photographer and a digikam fan I find you perspectives as a professional (undoubtedly my peer) and a user coming from lightroom (which I haven't used) interesting and would love to hear more in response to Dilton's points and then some. BTW, I have played with Aperature and iPhoto extensively... used adobe pshop since 1.0 not that it relates directly... but other then digikam which initially impresses the hell out of me with its interoperability and feature set... I've never used these photo management solutions because they're not OS portable and not interoperable with other applications. My work flow supremely demands interoperability with any best of breed application I should need on any OS. Then of course there is the reliability, archive ability and stability of these photo management applications. I suspect these are the same failings with lightroom especially since you said you were looking at digikam because of a "head" crash. (BTW, did you mean Vista crapped on you or your database in lightrooom corrupted?) Finally, I like digikam for it's powerful features which cover 90% of my daily needs in one application despite some occasional usability quirks which I have good faith will rapidly work themselves out over time... especially when I take the initiative to document them properly so the devs can consider them. Please provide more information and ideas on specific features you feel digikam is missing, or specific ways digikam could improve features it has. I find scenarios and work flows very useful... especially if there is a point of comparison. Screen snaps always help. P.S. I'm also a newbie to this specific mailing list and application, though I participate in many open source projects of a similar nature. Doton is right, it is a culture. It's a culture I've come to love. -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Dotan Cohen <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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