Digikam - Darktable workflow

[tosca]

I'm a Linux/Fedora 16 user, and have been using Digikam since I switched from Windows to Linux 2 years ago. I have about 30.000 pictures in my Digikam database, about half of them having been migrated from the Photoshop Elements I had used when running Windows.

About one year ago, I gave up shooting JPEG, and I now use RAW files only, produced by Canon EOS 450D at the beginning, and EOS7D currently.
I began to treat RAW pictures with Digikam, then RawTherapee, and 'upgraded' to Darktable some weeks ago.
I'm very satisfied with both programs - Digikam and Darktable - and intend to use them consistently in the foreseeable future

My workflow is usually the following:

1) in Digikam:
- import pictures straight from memory cards to a 'buffer' folder (I've named it 'A trier')
- first selection/rating: the pictures I want to keep are moved to their final folder. Some that I'm not yet sure about will remain in the 'A trier' folder till I take time to have another look; they will be moved to the same album as their 'sister' pictures in the case I decide to keep them
For this step, I mainly use the rating function; as I upgraded to version 2 quite recently, I've not yet decided how/when (at what stage) I will use pick and color labels.
I roughly maintain two main albums trees, one for 'events' when I produce between 30 and 500 or more pictures, the other for pictures taken at any moment, that I regroup in a monthly album. The events tree is organized by year (level 1) and event (level 2) named 'NN - this specific event' so they remain sorted in their own year. The 'day to day' tree is classically organized by year (level 1) and month (level 2)
So, whatever I'm looking, I always know in which folder I can find the picture I'm looking for.
- I might do some commenting and/or tagging at this stage, when I still have a lone CR2 file; but I have no strict rule on the matter: I can add information any time to any picture when I browse and work on the whole collection.

2) in Darktable:
- I use Darktable to produce TIFF files that will serve as 'master' full size pictures for whatever publication/export I'll need.
- I usually don't treat all the pictures of an event at the same time; I'm more or less in a hurry to publish a couple of the best ones, and take time, days or weeks later, to derawtize the remaining pictures
- I would like to be able to find easily the RAW files that have been previously selected in Digikam, but the information is not passed on to Darktable ... In the beginning, I created sub-sub-folders in Digikam, in order to select them easily in Darktable, but that is not convenient as I never know from the beginning, which pictures I will treat - or not - in the future ... and I want/need to keep in the same folder all the files (CR2, TIFF, JPEG, XMP) related to the same pictures and some of them (XMP for example) are not displayed.
- if I want different treatments for the same picture (color treatment, effects, etc.), I will clone the RAW file and produce a different TIFF. To make things easier, I've defined in Darktable an 'export Digikam' style that always save the TIFF in the folder the RAW file comes from.
- as there is currently no information transferred from Digikam to Darktable, when I want to treat just a couple of pictures, I find it easier to use the 'open in Darktable' function in Digikam, rather than the 'import folder' or 'import image' in Darktable.

3) in Digikam:
- from Digikam I export pictures regularly to a FB page, and several Piwigo and Picasa galleries.
- I usually open each picture in the editor in order to resize, then adjust the sharpening it before saving it as a new JPEG version. If sharpening is not so critical, I might use the batch queue treatment, or the resizing option of the Piwigo export to quicken the process.

I'd like very much to read from others about their own DK-DT workflow.

Marie-Noëlle

--
Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe

Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles

Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale


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[Ivan Tarozzi]

On 03/01/2012 08:42, Marie-Noëlle Augendre wrote:
[cut]
>
> I'd like very much to read from others about their own DK-DT workflow.
>

Here my workflow (I hope my poor english will be understandable :)

I'm running a Debian testing/sid 64bit with Darktable 0.9.3 and DK
2.4.1, both compiled from sources. My workflow still work in progress,
becasuse there are some features I changed and other I'm not satisfied.
I hope this thread help me to find a better solution :)

I dowload my raw (DNG) files with Rapid Download Manager (for historical
reason, but I plan to switch to DT or DK).
I collect my RAW in a separate folder, with following structure:
RAW/year/yyyymmdd
When importing I rename files as yyyymmdd_IVNxxxx.DNG (where IVNxxxx is
created by my camera as univocal).

Then I select/rate my raw directly in DT. I import new folder as
unrated, so I know what are to be to processed (rated or rejected/deleted).

I develop my raw and then I export to a DK Album folder.
Album is structured as macro-categories, but less important, because DK
offer a really good filtering on tags.
I export jpeg files in max 2000px long size. I started some month ago
exporting TIFF 16bit full resolution (12Mpixel), but I was not satisfied
becasue:
- a lot of space required
- big files then big memory required also to view it
- my linux mediacenter is slow to show a slide
- the most of pictures are used for web or PC view (limited resolutions)
- when I need to print, often a jpeg is  adequate; if I need better then
I can export from DT in tiff on a dedicate print folder

Finally I export to web/flickr using DK or GIMP (save for web plugin).

Actually I have some doubt about this:

- I rate in DT, and rating is imported in DK. But if I change rate in DK
or assign tags, when I reopen in DT it seems not to be update.

- I rate/tag jpeg files, and not raw. So I can't use "open in DT"
features. This is annoing because I need to read the file name and then
find it in DT. Is not done often, but uneasy :(
I will do some test putting raw/jpeg in the same directory, or tagging
directly raw, but I have some doubt about sync raw-jpeg.

- I would like to do some test about web-export/print-export quality. Is
it the same exporting by DT or exporting by DK/gimp?

-  I need to create my hown standard for label colors in DK, so for
exemple use a color for flickr exported, a color for "to be done" ....

That's all folks :)

Thanks  Marie-Noëlle for open this thread; i find it interesting.

Ivan
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[Martin (KDE)]

I have a similar setup (Canon 30D - yes little old). But my workflow is
a little bit different.

Mostly I import all photos with digikam importer. Within this I rename
the images from img_xxxx.cr2 to something easier. I only rename the img_
part, so the number remains. Usually I dont shot more than 6000 photos a
year, so this is something like a yearly id.

The img_ part is changed to the year and a brief description of the
event or location. A family photo taken on Easter with original named
img_1234.cr2 changes to family-easter-2011_1234.cr2.

I organize my photos in a mixture of date based folders and
event/location based folders. I often take photos for my local community
administration. These photos are organized in one subfolder (level 1)
and named according to the main event (like parliament, meetings - level
2), year (level 3) and the exact date (level 4).

Most of the other photos are organized in a similar way. A roughly main
group as first level, sometimes a minor name as second level, the year
and then the date. I used the year as first level for several years but
I was tired in creating similar structure for every year again and again.

After that darktable is used. I develop the photos mostly in one run.
For a friend I shot wedding photos. These took some days to get
developed properly. Some other bigger events are the same. But in most
cases I have enough time to develop the photos, so no need do a first
selection and after some time the rest.

I don't start darktable from within digikam. I mostly use collections in
darktable. Usually I do all settings in darktable and export the photos
as jpeg. In some cases where I have to do special work (portrait photos
i.e.) I export the photos to png and do the work in gimp, where I use
gimps own file format.

As Marie I sometimes clone the raw (nice feature in darktable btw.) and
build a complete different setup of photos (mostly black/white). And I
always store all different incarnations of one photos in one folder.

Initial star rating is mostly done in darktable where I take a first
detail look on the photos. Detailed rating afterwards is done in digikam
(does not happen that often).

I dont use the tagging feature in darktable (besides photographer name).
All tagging is done in digikam. I use tagging for my print selections as
well.

If I want to print photos (never on my own printer - I use a lab which
handles colour profiles) I use digikams batch function. depending on the
size I plan to print I reduce the photos and add a small frame (most
labs cut of about 1,5% of the photo at the margins). Batch job puts the
resulting photos in my out folder, from where I send them to the lab.
These output photos stays there for several month (just in case I need
them once again). Every now and then I clean up the out folder.

If I need photos for the web I have a collection of scripts to
postprocess the photos from the out folder.

That's for the start
Martin

Am 03.01.2012 08:42, schrieb Marie-Noëlle Augendre:

> I'm a Linux/Fedora 16 user, and have been using Digikam since I switched
> from Windows to Linux 2 years ago. I have about 30.000 pictures in my
> Digikam database, about half of them having been migrated from the
> Photoshop Elements I had used when running Windows.
>
> About one year ago, I gave up shooting JPEG, and I now use RAW files
> only, produced by Canon EOS 450D at the beginning, and EOS7D currently.
> I began to treat RAW pictures with Digikam, then RawTherapee, and
> 'upgraded' to Darktable some weeks ago.
> I'm very satisfied with both programs - Digikam and Darktable - and
> intend to use them consistently in the foreseeable future
>
> My workflow is usually the following:
>
> 1) in Digikam:
> - import pictures straight from memory cards to a 'buffer' folder (I've
> named it 'A trier')
> - first selection/rating: the pictures I want to keep are moved to their
> final folder. Some that I'm not yet sure about will remain in the 'A
> trier' folder till I take time to have another look; they will be moved
> to the same album as their 'sister' pictures in the case I decide to
> keep them
> For this step, I mainly use the rating function; as I upgraded to
> version 2 quite recently, I've not yet decided how/when (at what stage)
> I will use pick and color labels.
> I roughly maintain two main albums trees, one for 'events' when I
> produce between 30 and 500 or more pictures, the other for pictures
> taken at any moment, that I regroup in a monthly album. The events tree
> is organized by year (level 1) and event (level 2) named 'NN - this
> specific event' so they remain sorted in their own year. The 'day to
> day' tree is classically organized by year (level 1) and month (level 2)
> So, whatever I'm looking, I always know in which folder I can find the
> picture I'm looking for.
> - I might do some commenting and/or tagging at this stage, when I still
> have a lone CR2 file; but I have no strict rule on the matter: I can add
> information any time to any picture when I browse and work on the whole
> collection.
>
> 2) in Darktable:
> - I use Darktable to produce TIFF files that will serve as 'master' full
> size pictures for whatever publication/export I'll need.
> - I usually don't treat all the pictures of an event at the same time;
> I'm more or less in a hurry to publish a couple of the best ones, and
> take time, days or weeks later, to derawtize the remaining pictures
> - I would like to be able to find easily the RAW files that have been
> previously selected in Digikam, but the information is not passed on to
> Darktable ... In the beginning, I created sub-sub-folders in Digikam, in
> order to select them easily in Darktable, but that is not convenient as
> I never know from the beginning, which pictures I will treat - or not -
> in the future ... and I want/need to keep in the same folder all the
> files (CR2, TIFF, JPEG, XMP) related to the same pictures and some of
> them (XMP for example) are not displayed.
> - if I want different treatments for the same picture (color treatment,
> effects, etc.), I will clone the RAW file and produce a different TIFF.
> To make things easier, I've defined in Darktable an 'export Digikam'
> style that always save the TIFF in the folder the RAW file comes from.
> - as there is currently no information transferred from Digikam to
> Darktable, when I want to treat just a couple of pictures, I find it
> easier to use the 'open in Darktable' function in Digikam, rather than
> the 'import folder' or 'import image' in Darktable.
>
> 3) in Digikam:
> - from Digikam I export pictures regularly to a FB page, and several
> Piwigo and Picasa galleries.
> - I usually open each picture in the editor in order to resize, then
> adjust the sharpening it before saving it as a new JPEG version. If
> sharpening is not so critical, I might use the batch queue treatment, or
> the resizing option of the Piwigo export to quicken the process.
>
> I'd like very much to read from others about their own DK-DT workflow.
>
> Marie-Noëlle
>
> --
> Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe
> <http://www.webmaster-en-herbe.net/>
>
> Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles
> <http://www.cevennes-plurielles.com/>
>
> Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale
> <http://www.marie-noelle-augendre.com/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

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[Wolfgang Mader]

Hallo,

are you guys who do RAW development using calibrated work stations and color
profiles. If so, how do you obtain the color profile for your camera. I am using
a Canon 40D and have no clue on how to get the Canon color profile. Or is color
profiling not important when working with RAW files?

Thank you very much and a happy new year.
Wolfgang

On Tuesday 03 January 2012 08:42:06 Marie-Noëlle Augendre wrote:

> I'm a Linux/Fedora 16 user, and have been using Digikam since I switched
> from Windows to Linux 2 years ago. I have about 30.000 pictures in my
> Digikam database, about half of them having been migrated from the
> Photoshop Elements I had used when running Windows.
>
> About one year ago, I gave up shooting JPEG, and I now use RAW files only,
> produced by Canon EOS 450D at the beginning, and EOS7D currently.
> I began to treat RAW pictures with Digikam, then RawTherapee, and
> 'upgraded' to Darktable some weeks ago.
> I'm very satisfied with both programs - Digikam and Darktable - and intend
> to use them consistently in the foreseeable future
>
> My workflow is usually the following:
>
> 1) in Digikam:
> - import pictures straight from memory cards to a 'buffer' folder (I've
> named it 'A trier')
> - first selection/rating: the pictures I want to keep are moved to their
> final folder. Some that I'm not yet sure about will remain in the 'A trier'
> folder till I take time to have another look; they will be moved to the
> same album as their 'sister' pictures in the case I decide to keep them
> For this step, I mainly use the rating function; as I upgraded to version 2
> quite recently, I've not yet decided how/when (at what stage) I will use
> pick and color labels.
> I roughly maintain two main albums trees, one for 'events' when I produce
> between 30 and 500 or more pictures, the other for pictures taken at any
> moment, that I regroup in a monthly album. The events tree is organized by
> year (level 1) and event (level 2) named 'NN - this specific event' so they
> remain sorted in their own year. The 'day to day' tree is classically
> organized by year (level 1) and month (level 2)
> So, whatever I'm looking, I always know in which folder I can find the
> picture I'm looking for.
> - I might do some commenting and/or tagging at this stage, when I still
> have a lone CR2 file; but I have no strict rule on the matter: I can add
> information any time to any picture when I browse and work on the whole
> collection.
>
> 2) in Darktable:
> - I use Darktable to produce TIFF files that will serve as 'master' full
> size pictures for whatever publication/export I'll need.
> - I usually don't treat all the pictures of an event at the same time; I'm
> more or less in a hurry to publish a couple of the best ones, and take
> time, days or weeks later, to derawtize the remaining pictures
> - I would like to be able to find easily the RAW files that have been
> previously selected in Digikam, but the information is not passed on to
> Darktable ... In the beginning, I created sub-sub-folders in Digikam, in
> order to select them easily in Darktable, but that is not convenient as I
> never know from the beginning, which pictures I will treat - or not - in
> the future ... and I want/need to keep in the same folder all the files
> (CR2, TIFF, JPEG, XMP) related to the same pictures and some of them (XMP
> for example) are not displayed.
> - if I want different treatments for the same picture (color treatment,
> effects, etc.), I will clone the RAW file and produce a different TIFF. To
> make things easier, I've defined in Darktable an 'export Digikam' style
> that always save the TIFF in the folder the RAW file comes from.
> - as there is currently no information transferred from Digikam to
> Darktable, when I want to treat just a couple of pictures, I find it easier
> to use the 'open in Darktable' function in Digikam, rather than the 'import
> folder' or 'import image' in Darktable.
>
> 3) in Digikam:
> - from Digikam I export pictures regularly to a FB page, and several Piwigo
> and Picasa galleries.
> - I usually open each picture in the editor in order to resize, then adjust
> the sharpening it before saving it as a new JPEG version. If sharpening is
> not so critical, I might use the batch queue treatment, or the resizing
> option of the Piwigo export to quicken the process.
>
> I'd like very much to read from others about their own DK-DT workflow.
>
> Marie-Noëlle

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[tosca]

Up to a couple of weeks ago, I didn't bother to calibrate anything, as I was mainly interested in web-publishing and most of the people viewing my photos have uncalibrated screens and not all the browsers work properly with iCC profiles.
Even when I began to create books on the Blurb site, colour rendering was OK (I create the books on my system with Scribus, then use the procedure provided by Blurb to upload the PDFs).

As I intend to go soon to fine art printing (via a labo), I decided to calibrate all my screens. And did it 2 weeks ago.
But this has not changed anything on my camera.
You have to understand that an ICC profile only tells a device how to display the colours. Thus, I don't see any point to calibrate my camera, as I don't 'look' at my photos on it, except to check histogram and composition, but I don't need accurate colors to do that. And anyway, what you can see on your APN screen is the JPEG automatically created by the camera, and the RAW you'll post-treat will be something else entirely.

Marie-Noëlle

2012/1/3 Wolfgang Mader <[hidden email]>

Hallo,

are you guys who do RAW development using calibrated work stations and color
profiles. If so, how do you obtain the color profile for your camera. I am using
a Canon 40D and have no clue on how to get the Canon color profile. Or is color
profiling not important when working with RAW files?

Thank you very much and a happy new year.
Wolfgang

--
Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe

Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles

Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale


_______________________________________________
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[Martin (KDE)]

Am 03.01.2012 13:10, schrieb Wolfgang Mader:
> Hallo,
>
> are you guys who do RAW development using calibrated work stations and color
> profiles. If so, how do you obtain the color profile for your camera. I am using
> a Canon 40D and have no clue on how to get the Canon color profile. Or is color
> profiling not important when working with RAW files?

Yes, I do raw development in a colour calibrated environment. I have
calibrated my monitor, scanner and I tried to calibrate my camera as well.

First: forget about Canon colour profiles for your EOS40D. Even if you
can get one it is useless. Canon use some internal maths after/before
using the profiles so unless you know the maths you will get no pleasing
results. I tried it several times without success.

If you take profiling/calibrating serious you have to calibrate every
combination of light and lens with your camera. If you don't want to do
this, you don't need profiles.

Profiling is mandatory if you do product photos where exact colour
reproduction is needed. In all other cases, especially if you change
something in the postprocessing (saturation, white balance ...) you will
not benefit from a profile (why should I make sure the camera reproduce
a special type of blue if I change it afterwards?).

I don't know what digikam does on raw processing, but darktable uses
some generic profiles (Pascal de Bruijn is doing a great job here) for
(almost) every camera. Afaik the EOS40D is build in. My 30D for sure is.

For monitors and printers it is a different beast. If I fix some colour
cast to a value I am pleased with the printed photo have to match this
(within a given range and the physical colour gamut).

Btw: generating a valid and high quality profile for a camera is not
that easy.

Martin

Wolgang, as you are from germany, read
http://foto.beitinger.de/index.html
it is very informative.

>
> Thank you very much and a happy new year.
> Wolfgang
>
> On Tuesday 03 January 2012 08:42:06 Marie-Noëlle Augendre wrote:
>> I'm a Linux/Fedora 16 user, and have been using Digikam since I switched
>> from Windows to Linux 2 years ago. I have about 30.000 pictures in my
>> Digikam database, about half of them having been migrated from the
>> Photoshop Elements I had used when running Windows.
>>
>> About one year ago, I gave up shooting JPEG, and I now use RAW files only,
>> produced by Canon EOS 450D at the beginning, and EOS7D currently.
>> I began to treat RAW pictures with Digikam, then RawTherapee, and
>> 'upgraded' to Darktable some weeks ago.
>> I'm very satisfied with both programs - Digikam and Darktable - and intend
>> to use them consistently in the foreseeable future
>>
>> My workflow is usually the following:
>>
>> 1) in Digikam:
>> - import pictures straight from memory cards to a 'buffer' folder (I've
>> named it 'A trier')
>> - first selection/rating: the pictures I want to keep are moved to their
>> final folder. Some that I'm not yet sure about will remain in the 'A trier'
>> folder till I take time to have another look; they will be moved to the
>> same album as their 'sister' pictures in the case I decide to keep them
>> For this step, I mainly use the rating function; as I upgraded to version 2
>> quite recently, I've not yet decided how/when (at what stage) I will use
>> pick and color labels.
>> I roughly maintain two main albums trees, one for 'events' when I produce
>> between 30 and 500 or more pictures, the other for pictures taken at any
>> moment, that I regroup in a monthly album. The events tree is organized by
>> year (level 1) and event (level 2) named 'NN - this specific event' so they
>> remain sorted in their own year. The 'day to day' tree is classically
>> organized by year (level 1) and month (level 2)
>> So, whatever I'm looking, I always know in which folder I can find the
>> picture I'm looking for.
>> - I might do some commenting and/or tagging at this stage, when I still
>> have a lone CR2 file; but I have no strict rule on the matter: I can add
>> information any time to any picture when I browse and work on the whole
>> collection.
>>
>> 2) in Darktable:
>> - I use Darktable to produce TIFF files that will serve as 'master' full
>> size pictures for whatever publication/export I'll need.
>> - I usually don't treat all the pictures of an event at the same time; I'm
>> more or less in a hurry to publish a couple of the best ones, and take
>> time, days or weeks later, to derawtize the remaining pictures
>> - I would like to be able to find easily the RAW files that have been
>> previously selected in Digikam, but the information is not passed on to
>> Darktable ... In the beginning, I created sub-sub-folders in Digikam, in
>> order to select them easily in Darktable, but that is not convenient as I
>> never know from the beginning, which pictures I will treat - or not - in
>> the future ... and I want/need to keep in the same folder all the files
>> (CR2, TIFF, JPEG, XMP) related to the same pictures and some of them (XMP
>> for example) are not displayed.
>> - if I want different treatments for the same picture (color treatment,
>> effects, etc.), I will clone the RAW file and produce a different TIFF. To
>> make things easier, I've defined in Darktable an 'export Digikam' style
>> that always save the TIFF in the folder the RAW file comes from.
>> - as there is currently no information transferred from Digikam to
>> Darktable, when I want to treat just a couple of pictures, I find it easier
>> to use the 'open in Darktable' function in Digikam, rather than the 'import
>> folder' or 'import image' in Darktable.
>>
>> 3) in Digikam:
>> - from Digikam I export pictures regularly to a FB page, and several Piwigo
>> and Picasa galleries.
>> - I usually open each picture in the editor in order to resize, then adjust
>> the sharpening it before saving it as a new JPEG version. If sharpening is
>> not so critical, I might use the batch queue treatment, or the resizing
>> option of the Piwigo export to quicken the process.
>>
>> I'd like very much to read from others about their own DK-DT workflow.
>>
>> Marie-Noëlle
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

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[tosca]

Just to be more precise, a RAW file has nothing to do with colour, in fact. It's only luminance information that is captured, then filtered and analyzed on three different channels R, G and B. When derawtizing, it's up to you to decide what importance you'll give to each channel and 'compose' your colour up to your liking.
And you'll do that in the colour space you choose, and you need to transfer this information to each output device that will adjust the rendering using its own ICC profile.

Here are very some interesting pages on the subject, but I'm afraid you'll need to understand some french to put them to good use: http://www.guide-gestion-des-couleurs.com/introduction-gestion-des-couleurs.html

Marie-Noëlle

2012/1/3 Marie-Noëlle Augendre <[hidden email]>

And anyway, what you can see on your APN screen is the JPEG automatically created by the camera, and the RAW you'll post-treat will be something else entirely.

Marie-Noëlle

2012/1/3 Wolfgang Mader <[hidden email]>

Hallo,

are you guys who do RAW development using calibrated work stations and color
profiles. If so, how do you obtain the color profile for your camera. I am using
a Canon 40D and have no clue on how to get the Canon color profile. Or is color
profiling not important when working with RAW files?

Thank you very much and a happy new year.
Wolfgang

--
Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe

Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles

Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale

--
Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe

Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles

Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale


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[Remco Viëtor]

On Tuesday 03 January 2012 14:05:38 Marie-Noëlle Augendre wrote:
> Just to be more precise, a RAW file has nothing to do with colour, in fact.
> It's only luminance information that is captured, then filtered and
> analyzed on three different channels R, G and B. When derawtizing, it's up
> to you to decide what importance you'll give to each channel and 'compose'
> your colour up to your liking.
Just a nit: the light is filtered before it hits the sensor, so before it is
captured...
And yes, you decide on developing the raw the relative importance of each
channel, when you set the white balance. But that correction assumes a certain
ideal behaviour (as you just scale each channel). Profiling is used to correct
for response errors in your sensor (deviations from linearity, baseline
offsets, etc.)

> And you'll do that in the colour space you choose, and you need to transfer
> this information to each output device that will adjust the rendering using
> its own ICC profile.
>

A camera profile is there to ensure that the transfer to your working colour
space is as close to correct as possible...

> Here are very some interesting pages on the subject, but I'm afraid you'll
> need to understand some french to put them to good use:
> http://www.guide-gestion-des-couleurs.com/introduction-gestion-des-couleurs.
> html
>
> Marie-Noëlle

Well, it all depends on what you need: if all you want is to be sure that what
you see on screen is as close as possible to what you will get in print, you
can ignore camera calibration. That's when you can modify the colours to your
liking

However, if you need exact colours (i.e. what you get in print is what you
actually could see when taking the picture), you'll need to calibrate your
camera as well. The response of your sensor/filter screen is not ideal, so
you'll have to correct for any deviation from the ideal behaviour. This is
especially important for portraits (skin colours being rather sensitive to
errors), and could be important for certain scientific applications.

Remco


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[tosca]

2012/1/3 Remco Viëtor <[hidden email]>

Well, it all depends on what you need: if all you want is to be sure that what
you see on screen is as close as possible to what you will get in print, you
can ignore camera calibration. That's when you can modify the colours to your
liking

You're right. I have no other need.
 

However, if you need exact colours (i.e. what you get in print is what you
actually could see when taking the picture), you'll need to calibrate your
camera as well. The response of your sensor/filter screen is not ideal, so
you'll have to correct for any deviation from the ideal behaviour. This is
especially important for portraits (skin colours being rather sensitive to
errors), and could be important for certain scientific applications.

Remco

I understand what you mean for scientific applications. As for portraits, the photograph has some discretion to interpret what he/she has seen/captured and might want to tune colours.

Marie-Noëlle

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[Wolfgang Mader]

Thank you for your replies. Perhaps they drive me back to raw shooting, which
a stopped because I did not know how to handle them "corretly".

On Tuesday 03 January 2012 07:10:39 Wolfgang Mader wrote:

> Hallo,
>
> are you guys who do RAW development using calibrated work stations and color
> profiles. If so, how do you obtain the color profile for your camera. I am
> using a Canon 40D and have no clue on how to get the Canon color profile.
> Or is color profiling not important when working with RAW files?
>
> Thank you very much and a happy new year.
> Wolfgang
>
> On Tuesday 03 January 2012 08:42:06 Marie-Noëlle Augendre wrote:
> > I'm a Linux/Fedora 16 user, and have been using Digikam since I switched
> > from Windows to Linux 2 years ago. I have about 30.000 pictures in my
> > Digikam database, about half of them having been migrated from the
> > Photoshop Elements I had used when running Windows.
> >
> > About one year ago, I gave up shooting JPEG, and I now use RAW files
> > only, produced by Canon EOS 450D at the beginning, and EOS7D currently.
> > I began to treat RAW pictures with Digikam, then RawTherapee, and
> > 'upgraded' to Darktable some weeks ago.
> > I'm very satisfied with both programs - Digikam and Darktable - and
> > intend to use them consistently in the foreseeable future
> >
> > My workflow is usually the following:
> >
> > 1) in Digikam:
> > - import pictures straight from memory cards to a 'buffer' folder (I've
> > named it 'A trier')
> > - first selection/rating: the pictures I want to keep are moved to their
> > final folder. Some that I'm not yet sure about will remain in the 'A
> > trier' folder till I take time to have another look; they will be moved
> > to the same album as their 'sister' pictures in the case I decide to
> > keep them For this step, I mainly use the rating function; as I
> > upgraded to version 2 quite recently, I've not yet decided how/when (at
> > what stage) I will use pick and color labels.
> > I roughly maintain two main albums trees, one for 'events' when I
> > produce
> > between 30 and 500 or more pictures, the other for pictures taken at any
> > moment, that I regroup in a monthly album. The events tree is organized
> > by year (level 1) and event (level 2) named 'NN - this specific event'
> > so they remain sorted in their own year. The 'day to day' tree is
> > classically organized by year (level 1) and month (level 2)
> > So, whatever I'm looking, I always know in which folder I can find the
> > picture I'm looking for.
> > - I might do some commenting and/or tagging at this stage, when I still
> > have a lone CR2 file; but I have no strict rule on the matter: I can add
> > information any time to any picture when I browse and work on the whole
> > collection.
> >
> > 2) in Darktable:
> > - I use Darktable to produce TIFF files that will serve as 'master' full
> > size pictures for whatever publication/export I'll need.
> > - I usually don't treat all the pictures of an event at the same time;
> > I'm more or less in a hurry to publish a couple of the best ones, and
> > take time, days or weeks later, to derawtize the remaining pictures
> > - I would like to be able to find easily the RAW files that have been
> > previously selected in Digikam, but the information is not passed on to
> > Darktable ... In the beginning, I created sub-sub-folders in Digikam, in
> > order to select them easily in Darktable, but that is not convenient as
> > I
> > never know from the beginning, which pictures I will treat - or not - in
> > the future ... and I want/need to keep in the same folder all the files
> > (CR2, TIFF, JPEG, XMP) related to the same pictures and some of them
> > (XMP
> > for example) are not displayed.
> > - if I want different treatments for the same picture (color treatment,
> > effects, etc.), I will clone the RAW file and produce a different TIFF.
> > To make things easier, I've defined in Darktable an 'export Digikam'
> > style that always save the TIFF in the folder the RAW file comes from.
> > - as there is currently no information transferred from Digikam to
> > Darktable, when I want to treat just a couple of pictures, I find it
> > easier to use the 'open in Darktable' function in Digikam, rather than
> > the 'import folder' or 'import image' in Darktable.
> >
> > 3) in Digikam:
> > - from Digikam I export pictures regularly to a FB page, and several
> > Piwigo and Picasa galleries.
> > - I usually open each picture in the editor in order to resize, then
> > adjust the sharpening it before saving it as a new JPEG version. If
> > sharpening is not so critical, I might use the batch queue treatment,
> > or the resizing option of the Piwigo export to quicken the process.
> >
> > I'd like very much to read from others about their own DK-DT workflow.
> >
> > Marie-Noëlle
>
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[tosca]

It's always possible to rely on automatic derawtization. That's what I did in the beginning, I let DK do the treatment. But now I've learned a bit more, and am able to re-process my old RAW pictures if I feel like it.

Marie-Noëlle

2012/1/4 Wolfgang Mader <[hidden email]>

Thank you for your replies. Perhaps they drive me back to raw shooting, which
a stopped because I did not know how to handle them "corretly".

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[Martin (KDE)]

Am 04.01.2012 12:22, schrieb Marie-Noëlle Augendre:
> It's always possible to rely on automatic derawtization. That's what I
> did in the beginning, I let DK do the treatment. But now I've learned a
> bit more, and am able to re-process my old RAW pictures if I feel like it.

In the beginning I did jpeg only photos. After a while I read more about
raw and the extras I can get from it, so I did both. Only the photos I
am not satisfied with I handled in raw. At this time I used ufraw (which
is a great program but a little limited). But then I switched to
darktable and since then I shot in raw only.

I tried several raw development tools for linux. Imho rawtherapee and
darktable are the best.

Martin

>
> Marie-Noëlle
>
> 2012/1/4 Wolfgang Mader <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     Thank you for your replies. Perhaps they drive me back to raw
>     shooting, which
>     a stopped because I did not know how to handle them "corretly".
>
>
>
> --
> Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe
> <http://www.webmaster-en-herbe.net/>
>
> Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles
> <http://www.cevennes-plurielles.com/>
>
> Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale
> <http://www.marie-noelle-augendre.com/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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[tosca]

I never bothered with RAW + JPEG, even when I began shooting in RAW, as I saw that Digikam was perfectly able to produce automatically a good enough JPEG (in my opinion) from a RAW file.

Marie-Noëlle

2012/1/4 Martin (KDE) <[hidden email]>

Am 04.01.2012 12:22, schrieb Marie-Noëlle Augendre:

> It's always possible to rely on automatic derawtization. That's what I
> did in the beginning, I let DK do the treatment. But now I've learned a
> bit more, and am able to re-process my old RAW pictures if I feel like it.

In the beginning I did jpeg only photos. After a while I read more about
raw and the extras I can get from it, so I did both. Only the photos I
am not satisfied with I handled in raw. At this time I used ufraw (which
is a great program but a little limited). But then I switched to
darktable and since then I shot in raw only.

I tried several raw development tools for linux. Imho rawtherapee and
darktable are the best.

Martin

>
> Marie-Noëlle
>
> 2012/1/4 Wolfgang Mader <[hidden email]

> <mailto:[hidden email]>>

>
>     Thank you for your replies. Perhaps they drive me back to raw
>     shooting, which
>     a stopped because I did not know how to handle them "corretly".
>
>
>
> --
> Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe

> <http://www.webmaster-en-herbe.net/>

>
> Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles

> <http://www.cevennes-plurielles.com/>

>
> Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale

> <http://www.marie-noelle-augendre.com/>

>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

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