[Bug 205776] New: "Embedded preview loads full image size" does not only do what it says, confusing users

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205776





--- Comment #40 from Matti Rintala <bitti cs tut fi>  2009-09-07 19:53:39 ---
I just discovered a flaw in the new preview algorithm when full-size previews
are requested:

When deciding whether the embedded image is large enough, the width of the
preview is compared to the width of the raw image itself. However, at least in
the case of Nikon raw files edited with NX2, if the image was taken in vertical
orientation, NX2 has already reset the exif orientation flag and the embedded
preview has been rotated. This causes Digikam to compare the rotated width of
the preview and the unrotated width of the raw data, which often causes it to
discard the preview as "too small".

Marcel, I'll send you the raw files so you can see for yourself.

I think this clever new algorithm may not be so clever after all. It's very
confusing to browse photos, and some of the previews are embedded, some are
raw-decoded by Digikam.

Maybe we need a user preference after all, since one user probably always wants
either to use embedded previews or raw previews decoded by Digikam.

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[Marcel Wiesweg]

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--- Comment #41 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2009-09-08 20:42:34 ---
We use image area rather than only height or width. Or qMax(width, height) for
both.

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--- Comment #42 from Matti Rintala <bitti cs tut fi>  2009-09-09 07:33:24 ---
Marcel,

From previewtask.cpp, line 219 (this code is used when size == 0):

   // Discard if too small
   if (qimage.width() < dcrawIdentify.imageSize.width() / 2)

But this is still beside the point. Since Nikon NEF format can contain edit
step, the embedded result of editing can be cropped or resized. For that reason
comparing its size to the size of the raw image doesn't tell which one is
"better".

Are there any more "raw" image formats which can contain edited images, or is
Nikon NEF the only one?

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205776





--- Comment #43 from Gilles Caulier <caulier gilles gmail com>  2009-09-09 07:48:17 ---
Matti,

DNG has JPEG preview editable.

All preview in raw file are stored in a dedicated makenotes. In theory, if you
can change makernote tags, you can edit preview image (has in PEF format for
ex.)

Currently, digiKam use Exiv2 library which provide a limited list of editable
RAW metadata.

Exiftool has a bigger list. So i let's you imagine...

In proprietary world, each maker provide software in this way. I'm sure that
Canon do it...

But the best format for that is DNG, because it's standardized and based on
TIFF/EP.

Gilles Caulier

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--- Comment #44 from Matti Rintala <bitti cs tut fi>  2009-09-09 07:56:40 ---
Thanks for the info Gilles,

That makes embedded jpegs even more important. But since some raw formats only
contain small-size embedded jpegs by default, users should be able to choose
Digikam generated raw-decoded previews also.

I that light I suggest that a new user preference "use embedded jpeg in raw
images when available" should be added. But I don't know where that preference
should be in the GUI. There are now two places where the user can choose
between full-size preview and reduced-size (for album preview and for light
table). However, I don't think there's any point in letting the user to choose
raw-decoding vs. embedded jpeg separately for album preview and light table. So
there should be one check box "use embedded jpeg in raw images when available"
which is used for both.

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[Marcel Wiesweg]

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--- Comment #45 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2009-09-12 16:05:23 ---
SVN commit 1022779 by mwiesweg:

For now, use qMax(width, height) to detect if a preview is too small.
Doesn't solve the issue of cropped images in NEFs.

CCBUG: 205776

 M  +1 -1      previewtask.cpp  


WebSVN link: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=1022779

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--- Comment #46 from DrSlony <drslony panopixel org>  2009-10-26 17:11:34 ---
I read this thread and I got a bit lost as to what your latest code looks like
now. Whatever it is, I hope that you name the options clearly:
"Embedded preview" is much more clear and tells me more than "large preview"
"Full size preview" tells me nothing, I'd prefer an "embedded preview /
generate preview" option, with a "full size / half size" option.

Also, I'd like an option to force a preview that shows me the real RAW file,
meaning that if the RAW file is underexposed, I want the preview and thumbnail
to be underexposed too. I can't do that in digiKam-0.10.0.
So if you implement an option to have digiKam generate the preview, I'd like an
option to let digiKam use auto-exporure correction, or to not touch the
exposure. Some users will prefer one, some the other. It should be up to them
in the end. That's what I like about the KDE way :]

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--- Comment #47 from DrSlony <drslony panopixel org>  2009-10-26 17:15:16 ---
*** Bug 208293 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Bartek Pietrasiak]

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--- Comment #48 from Bartek Pietrasiak <pietras sp gmail com>  2009-10-27 19:07:17 ---
Perhaps we should ask raw shooters ... So, is there any raw shooter who  at
least once has reviewed, deleted some and tag the rest of newly imported 500
(only ...;) pictures using the mode with decoding raw? ;)

I shoot in cannon raws. I guess that each raw format decoding takes a bit of
time since demosaicing algorithms are common. Therefore I have set this option
a long time ago and never changed. I it was the reason I chose digikam. If I
want to see raw decoded I use raw developer (currently just pressing F4 ;).

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[Michal Thoma]

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--- Comment #49 from Michal Thoma <michal thoma cz>  2010-02-05 17:49:34 ---
With 1.1.0 This is no longer issue though it seem s it developed some
misconception in the text which is displayed in right top corner of image when
viewed now.

It seems there is some mismatch:

-When I have checked option "Embedded preview loads full image size" and view
RAW image I can see the text in right top corner: "Half Size Raw Preview" while
actually displayed image is "Full size Embedded Preview"

-When I uncheck option "Embedded preview loads full image size" I can se this
text: "Embedded JPEG preview". While acutally this "Half Size Embedded Preview"

So it's quite apparently switched. I experienced this behavior with both .PEF
raw and .DNG.

Anyway i would argue using text "Embedded JPEG preview" with raw images. I'm
not aware of any current case though in future definitely we will have raw
previews which won't be JPEG but i.e. PNG or other. So I suggest using
"Embedded Preview" term only without format specification.

Also another rather unimportant though not very logical issue is displaying of
normal (not RAW) images:

While the full size image is viewed I can see the text "Full Size Preview".
Though in this case using word preview is misleading. This is not the preview,
this actually Image. So I would suggest to use "Full Size Image" instead.

The same for "Half Size Preview" which actually is "Half Size Image".

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--- Comment #50 from Matti Rintala <bitti cs tut fi>  2010-09-23 16:36:46 ---
Hi,

Is there any progress on this "bug"?

I agree with DrSlony (#46) on that "embedded preview / generate preview" or
"embedded preview / decoded preview" with raw files would be clearer than
current functionality.

Especially because in current Digikam there is still heuristics which choose
raw decoded preview instead of embedded if the embedded preview image is less
than half the size of the raw image. So if edit a Nikon raw file and crop it,
the embedded preview image is not shown because Digikam thinks it's "too
small".

This is especially confusing because Digikam still uses embedded preview for
all other raw files, so we get a confusing mix of embedded previews and
raw-decoded previews (and without any indication about which is which).

If Digikam gets non-destructive raw editing some day, this problem will
probably raise its head more and more.

Any chance of getting rid of hard-coded heuristics and simply letting users to
choose whether they want embedded previews or raw-decoded ones?

Matti Rintala

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--- Comment #51 from Gilles Caulier <caulier gilles gmail com>  2011-12-15 13:08:20 ---
Matti,

This file still valid using digiKam 2.x serie ?

Gilles Caulier

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--- Comment #52 from Michal Thoma <michal thoma cz>  2011-12-15 13:26:34 ---
For me it's fixed in Digikam 2.3 (and I think it's fixed for quite some
already).

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--- Comment #53 from Matti Rintala <bitti cs tut fi>  2011-12-27 16:47:42 ---
No, unfortunately the bug is not fixed.

Digikam still uses heuristics in addition to user settings to decide whether to
use embedded jpg preview or raw decoding for showing the picture. I still can
reproduce the following scenario with 2.4.1:

- I have "Embedded preview loads full-sized images" set
- Normally Digikam uses embedded jpg preview for Nikon NEF files.
- If I edit a Nikon NEF file with an external editor (Nikon Capture NX2) and
crop it heavily, Digikam starts using its own raw decoding for its previews
(apparently because the size of the embedded preview has dropped below a
hard-coded threshold).

As I have said earlier, it's unlikely that anyone wants Digikam to
automatically switch between embedded preview and raw decoded previews.

I suggest that current heuristics for disabling embedded previews are removed
and that the UI text for "Embedded preview loads full-sized images" is changed
to "Use embedded preview for raw files, if available" or something similar.

Matti

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--- Comment #54 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2011-12-28 10:05:26 ---

> I suggest that current heuristics for disabling embedded previews are removed
> and that the UI text for "Embedded preview loads full-sized images" is changed
> to "Use embedded preview for raw files, if available" or something similar.

This is appropriate for your special use case (using the NEF format's
capabilities to the extent that the embedded JPG is an edited version of the
RAW) but does not help to make it work with as many RAW formats as possible

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--- Comment #55 from Matti Rintala <bitti cs tut fi>  2011-12-28 20:50:04 ---
Marcel,

I totally agree that Digikam should work with most (if not all) raw formats,
not just NEFs, unedited or not. If I have given the impression that I just want
to change Digikam to suit my personal tastes, I'm sorry.

In my opinion, the two raw preview approaches have the following pros and cons:

1) Using embedded jpeg preview produced by the camera (or a raw editing
software)
- Its resolution depends on the raw format, some have full resolution previews,
other formats only offer reduced resolution
- If the embedded preview is a low resolution image, it may be too small to
evaluate sharpness of the photo
- Its appearance is equal to what the user saw at the camera's LCD, i.e. all
camera's settings have been applied to the preview
- If the user has used camera settings to get close to what he wants, this is
what he wants to see (he can then later try to recreate the look in raw
editing, if the raw editor does not understand all camera settings)

2) Using Digikam's raw decoding to render a prevew
- It is always a full resolution preview, regardless of the raw format, so it's
better for sharpness evaluation than a small resolution embedded preview
- Its appearance depends on the parameters of Digikam's raw decoding algorithm,
which (to my knowledge) means that many/most camera settings are ignored.
- This in turn is ok if the user does not care about camera settings and wants
the preview to represent the "starting point" for later raw editing.

My point is that regardless of the raw format, there are good and bad sides
with both approaches. Only the user can know which he likes better. And that's
why I think the user should be able to make the ultimate choice without being
overridden by a hard-coded heuristics based on embedded preview size. And
that's why I think the user preference UI text should clearly say which
approach is chosen.

Of course, if the raw image containes no embedded preview, then raw-decoded
previews could be used no matter what the user preference says.

Matti

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[DrSlony-3]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205776

--- Comment #56 from DrSlony <[hidden email]> ---
I simply want to be able to make digiKam either use the embedded JPEG when I
click on a raw photo (fast, but misrepresents the real raw data), or to
generate a preview from the raw data (slow, but true to the raw data). In 2.5.0
I still can't do that - at least that's what I'm lead to believe, based on the
2-3 seconds it takes digiKam to show me a preview of a raw file after I click
on it despite having "Thumbnail click action > show embedded preview" selected.
I wrote about this specifically in bug 296651.

Some raw files have more than one embedded JPEG - at different resolutions.
Which one you choose to display is of less importance to me than the speed with
which I should be able to preview raw files, because as it is now, the 2-3
seconds is really annoying when sorting through 500 raw files when other
software like Geeqie manage to display that embedded JPEG in a fraction of a
second.

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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--- Comment #57 from Gerry Patterson <[hidden email]> ---
Hello,

I have been suffering a bit of from this issue as, since the heuristicis went
in, I have been forced to preview all the raw files using the half size raw
preview instead of an embedded jpg.  (I use Canon 350D, 40D and G9).  I thought
this was "the way it is" until I discovered that my laptop viewed the same
files with the embedded jpg.  This was strange since the laptop has a higher
resolution screen than my primary system.  After poking around, I found that
the heuristics were using the entire size of my desktop, which on a dual screen
system is quite wide.  I submitted a patch to bug 296651 which uses the actual
screen size instead, which I think is the intent.  Hopefully, it makes it into
future releases as I think it may help others.

As to the above requests, would the following two dropdowns work?

Click on RAW Files
1. Load Embedded Preview  (always, unless fails)
2. Decode Half Size Raw
3. Decode Raw into Editor

Click on Non-RAW Files  <- Is there a better way to describe non-raw files?
1. Load Embedded Preview  (unless fails)
2. Load Full size Image
3. Start Image Editor

Best regards,

- Gerry

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