xmp and shortcuts
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Hello,
I would like to ask if it is possible to change names of xmp files created by digikam (canon eos 5d mark II). Now it is: imagename.cr2.xmp. I would like to have: imagename.xmp. I think that is the problem why my captions and rating aren't read by Rawtherape or After Shot Pro. Am I right? Also I would like to ask how can I change shortcuts for changing rating and slideshow. I don't see that options in "Configure shortcuts menu" all the best Tomek Wiech _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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Hi,
This topic have been already discuted in bugzilla. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=278935 The short response is no. Why. it's simple: digiKam use the full qualified name (file name + extension) to prevent any problem if both file name exist in same directly. Typical case is JPEG + RAW : - imagename.cr2 - imagename.jpg How to differentiate XMP sidecar files which is assigned to JPEG and to RAW ? It's impossible with Rawtherape way. For me it's a severe dysfunction, and we don't change this behavior in digiKam. Ask to Rawtherape team to implement a more safe way, with the possibility to switch on old to new behavior. Best Gilles Caulier 2014/1/13 Tomasz Wiech <[hidden email]>: > Hello, > I would like to ask if it is possible to change names of xmp files created > by digikam (canon eos 5d mark II). Now it is: imagename.cr2.xmp. I would > like to have: imagename.xmp. > I think that is the problem why my captions and rating aren't read by > Rawtherape or After Shot Pro. Am I right? > > Also I would like to ask how can I change shortcuts for changing rating and > slideshow. I don't see that options in "Configure shortcuts menu" > > all the best > > Tomek Wiech > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: xmp and shortcuts
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Hello, On Wed, 15 Jan 2014, Gilles Caulier wrote: > Hi, > > This topic have been already discuted in bugzilla. > > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=278935 > > The short response is no. Why. it's simple: digiKam use the full > qualified name (file name + extension) to prevent any problem if both > file name exist in same directly. Typical case is JPEG + RAW : > > - imagename.cr2 > - imagename.jpg > > How to differentiate XMP sidecar files which is assigned to JPEG and > to RAW ? It's impossible with Rawtherape way. For me it's a severe > dysfunction, and we don't change this behavior in digiKam. > > Ask to Rawtherape team to implement a more safe way, with the > possibility to switch on old to new behavior. And it's not a Rawtherapee issue at all. The naming convention imagename.xmp is used by Rawtherapee, true, but also by Corel's AfterShotpro, by Adobe Camera Raw, Adobe Lightroom, etc. Also, some software (Bibble / Bibble5) did offer the two conventions. It seems that the problem is not to debate about which naming convention is better, Digikam convention or Adobe convention. Both have advantages and drawbacks, both have good rationale that make sense. It's more a matter of XMP philosophy than a technical debate. From users point of view, the problem should be seen as an inter operability issue. Offering an option to allow users choose between one or the other convention would really be a great feature. It would change nothing for users that only work with Digikam, and it would make life happier for those who use Digikam and other software. Steps towards compatibility and interoperability always appear as « thumb up » features. Of cours, nothing but my opinion, I'm a compatibility addict ;) Regards, Jean-François PS: @Tomasz If you feel at ease with shell scripting, you can easily write a small tool to walk your images folders and make a copy of all imagename.extension.xmp to imagename.xmp. That way, you will get your data under Lightroom, Rawtherapee, AfterShotpro and others. _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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Le 16/01/2014 09:00, Jean-François Rabasse a écrit :
> Offering an option to allow users choose between one or the other > convention would really be a great feature. rename ".jpg." "." *.jpg should fix the problem... (do not use without test, it's only from memory), preferably after a copy jdd -- http://www.dodin.org _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: xmp and shortcuts
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On Thu, 16 Jan 2014, jdd wrote: > Le 16/01/2014 09:00, Jean-François Rabasse a écrit : > >> Offering an option to allow users choose between one or the other >> convention would really be a great feature. > > rename ".jpg." "." *.jpg > > should fix the problem... (do not use without test, it's only from memory), > preferably after a copy Yes, rename may be unsuitable if you use different programs on a regular basis. Probably better to keep the two versions, one for Digikam, the other for other software using the Adobe convention, and make copies. Also, sidecar files dates should be checked in case metadata is edited with both programs. Some synchronization scripts such as : if test imagename.jpg.xmp -nt imagename.xmp then copy imagename.jpg.xmp to imagename.xmp else copy imagename.xmp to imagename.jpg.xmp I did things like that in the past, worked well. Jean-François _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Jean-François Rabasse-2
Jean François,
Please report your feedback into the bugzilla entry that i listed before.... Gilles Caulier 2014/1/16 Jean-François Rabasse <[hidden email]>: > > > Hello, > > > > On Wed, 15 Jan 2014, Gilles Caulier wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> This topic have been already discuted in bugzilla. >> >> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=278935 >> >> The short response is no. Why. it's simple: digiKam use the full >> qualified name (file name + extension) to prevent any problem if both >> file name exist in same directly. Typical case is JPEG + RAW : >> >> - imagename.cr2 >> - imagename.jpg >> >> How to differentiate XMP sidecar files which is assigned to JPEG and >> to RAW ? It's impossible with Rawtherape way. For me it's a severe >> dysfunction, and we don't change this behavior in digiKam. >> >> Ask to Rawtherape team to implement a more safe way, with the >> possibility to switch on old to new behavior. > > > Hum, not sure this could greatly help Tomasz :-) > > And it's not a Rawtherapee issue at all. The naming convention imagename.xmp > is used by Rawtherapee, true, but also by Corel's AfterShotpro, by Adobe > Camera Raw, Adobe Lightroom, etc. > Also, some software (Bibble / Bibble5) did offer the two conventions. > > It seems that the problem is not to debate about which naming convention > is better, Digikam convention or Adobe convention. Both have advantages > and drawbacks, both have good rationale that make sense. > It's more a matter of XMP philosophy than a technical debate. > > From users point of view, the problem should be seen as an inter > operability issue. > Offering an option to allow users choose between one or the other > convention would really be a great feature. > It would change nothing for users that only work with Digikam, and it would > make life happier for those who use Digikam and other software. > > Steps towards compatibility and interoperability always appear as > « thumb up » features. > Of cours, nothing but my opinion, I'm a compatibility addict ;) > > Regards, > Jean-François > > > PS: @Tomasz > If you feel at ease with shell scripting, you can easily write a small > tool to walk your images folders and make a copy of all > imagename.extension.xmp to imagename.xmp. > That way, you will get your data under Lightroom, Rawtherapee, AfterShotpro > and others. > _______________________________________________ > Digikam-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users > Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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In reply to this post by Jean-François Rabasse-2
This thread is a bit old, but I start to use Lightroom cause I change my
Camera (now with Fuji X-E2) and my usual Developper (Nikon Capture NX) accept only Nikon Raw or tif/jpg. So I encounter the same "issue". I clearly understand the way Digikam and Darktable use. It's clearly more logical but Lightroom is a well know software, and cut interoperability with it may bring people to stop using Digikam or Darktable. My side, I don't make copy of XMP file, but I've made symbolic link. I don't know if there's compatibility of windows/linux symbolic links, but since I use Digikam on Linux and Lightroom in Virtualbox with a shared SMB drive where photos are, this way works well. I just have to refresh metadata in LR and Digikam before starting using them (Lightroom detect XMP has changed, Digikam don't but to validate import, manual acceptance is needed anyway). After that, I don't know which behavior should have Digikam for writing sidecars... But it would be great if interoperability become possible easily. Nicolas Le Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:38:12 +0100, Jean-François Rabasse <[hidden email]> a écrit: > > > On Thu, 16 Jan 2014, jdd wrote: > >> Le 16/01/2014 09:00, Jean-François Rabasse a écrit : >> >>> Offering an option to allow users choose between one or the other >>> convention would really be a great feature. >> >> rename ".jpg." "." *.jpg >> >> should fix the problem... (do not use without test, it's only from >> memory), >> preferably after a copy > > Yes, rename may be unsuitable if you use different programs on a regular > basis. Probably better to keep the two versions, one for Digikam, the > other for other software using the Adobe convention, and make copies. > > Also, sidecar files dates should be checked in case metadata is edited > with both programs. Some synchronization scripts such as : > if test imagename.jpg.xmp -nt imagename.xmp > then copy imagename.jpg.xmp to imagename.xmp > else copy imagename.xmp to imagename.jpg.xmp > > I did things like that in the past, worked well. > > Jean-François -- Utilisant le logiciel de courrier d'Opera : http://www.opera.com/mail/ _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
Re: xmp and shortcuts
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On Sun, 13 Apr 2014, Photonoxx wrote: > This thread is a bit old, but I start to use Lightroom cause I change my > Camera (now with Fuji X-E2) and my usual Developper (Nikon Capture NX) > accept only Nikon Raw or tif/jpg. > > So I encounter the same "issue". > > I clearly understand the way Digikam and Darktable use. It's clearly more > logical but Lightroom is a well know software, and cut interoperability > with it may bring people to stop using Digikam or Darktable. > > My side, I don't make copy of XMP file, but I've made symbolic link. I > don't know if there's compatibility of windows/linux symbolic links, but > since I use Digikam on Linux and Lightroom in Virtualbox with a shared SMB > drive where photos are, this way works well. > > I just have to refresh metadata in LR and Digikam before starting using > them (Lightroom detect XMP has changed, Digikam don't but to validate > import, manual acceptance is needed anyway). > > After that, I don't know which behavior should have Digikam for writing > sidecars... But it would be great if interoperability become possible > easily. Yes, an old thread, but a really older problem :-) As for me, I strongly doubt interoperability could be achieved, one day or the other, because choosing a sidecar naming convention is not a technical issue but a philosophical issue. When Adobe created XMP, in the early 2000s, they explained their logic and stated on the difference between an image and an image file. An image is supposed to be a representation, a scene, a photo shot... This image can then be stored on computers drives under different formats, raw, png, jpg, others. And the major idea is that it remains the same image, using such or such raster file format doesn't change the visual. (Except in cas a user would use the same base name for different pictures stored under different formats, e.g. Image1.png would have nothing common with Image1.jpg. Hum, dangerous IMHO) Given that, as XMP metadata contain technical shot information (the xmp:exif schema) and documentation information, title, keywords, author, credits, etc., it make sense to consider that XMP data relates to the image, not to an image format or another. And this leads to a convention where the image is referenced by a base name, Image, the different possible formats by the name and a specific extension, Image.png, Image.jpg, and the XMP data by a unique file, Image.xmp, valid for all the formats. But this logic isn't shared by every one, and other people may consider that XMP metadata relates to such or such file format. And this leads to convention ImageName + format extension + .xmp No one is right or wrong (even if human beings often consider they are right and the others are wrong :-) It's more a matter of taste and also of usage. For my personal usage, I don't have XMP metadata that could be associated to one image format and not the other. So, I will prefer the Adobe logic, rather than having to edit a title, or set tags or keywords, on several files (png version, jpeg version et al.), with the same values. I tag images, not files formats. But I think this problem will never converge to something more or less standard, mostly because sidecar files isn't a standard per se. Interoperability would also concern images viewers, not just images editors. Most viewers, KDE Gwenview, Gnome EOG, etc., display XMP data along with the image, but they all use the XMP data embedded in the currently displayed image file. No use of sidecar at all. So, probably, interoperability means storing XMP data into the files, and keeping sidecars as working tools for such or such application. And adapting such or such naming convention for sidecars to the requirements of such or such application will still remain a kind of hacks and tweaks. Probably forever... Regards, Jean-François _______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users |
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