tags: wrong IPTC and XMP information

[Leonardo Canducci-2]

I'm using digikam 1-beta3 from debian sid and I'm quite happy with it.
What I care most for is tagging and tags interoperability among apps
and OS.
I just did some tests to see whether tags set with digikam were
respected in osx (finder) and windows (picasa and some old photoshop
album software).
They were there indeed but hierarchy was lost and - most important -
some tags were missing and other were assigned to the wrong photos.
Trying to understant what was happening I cheched the IPTC and XMP
section on digikam right sidebar and found out that there was no
consistency between tags and IPTC and XMP information. Digikams writes
wrong information on IPTC and XMP in JPEGs.
Anyone with similar experience? Should I file a bug?

Thanks!
--
Leonardo Canducci
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[Micha? Smoczyk]

Leonardo Canducci wrote:

> They were there indeed but hierarchy was lost

If I'm right, tag list hierarchy is saved in distinct XMP digikam
schema.

> and - most important -
> some tags were missing and other were assigned to the wrong photos.
> Trying to understant what was happening I cheched the IPTC and XMP
> section on digikam right sidebar and found out that there was no
> consistency between tags and IPTC and XMP information. Digikams writes
> wrong information on IPTC and XMP in JPEGs.
> Anyone with similar experience? Should I file a bug?

I've never experienced inconsistency like that. Could you give some
examples and screenshots?

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[Leonardo Canducci-2]

2009/8/24 Micha? Smoczyk <[hidden email]>:
> Leonardo Canducci wrote:
>
>> They were there indeed but hierarchy was lost
>
> If I'm right, tag list hierarchy is saved in distinct XMP digikam
> schema.
Does that mean that tag hierarchy is recognized in digikam only?

>
>> and - most important -
>> some tags were missing and other were assigned to the wrong photos.
>> Trying to understant what was happening I cheched the IPTC and XMP
>> section on digikam right sidebar and found out that there was no
>> consistency between tags and IPTC and XMP information. Digikams writes
>> wrong information on IPTC and XMP in JPEGs.
>> Anyone with similar experience? Should I file a bug?
>
> I've never experienced inconsistency like that. Could you give some
> examples and screenshots?

Clicking on "Syncronize images with database" solves the problem. I
assumed sync was automatic, isn't it?
Thanks!
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Leonardo Canducci
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[Micha? Smoczyk]

Leonardo Canducci wrote :

> 2009/8/24 Micha? Smoczyk <[hidden email]>:
>> Leonardo Canducci wrote:
>>
>>> They were there indeed but hierarchy was lost
>> If I'm right, tag list hierarchy is saved in distinct XMP digikam
>> schema.
> Does that mean that tag hierarchy is recognized in digikam only?

I think yes.

I remember that earlier versions of digiKam I've used (0.9.x for
example) tag hierarchy was saved using "/" in IPTC and XMP Keywords
fields. But it was changed in some next version (0.10.0?).

It drived me (I always embed tags in image files), after importing
my pictures to new digiKam version in some moment, to inconsistency
in tags.
Some tags are written with hierarchy (written by earlier dk
versions), some without one (written by new version), even the same
in the same picture - for example 'topics/botany/plants/plant
communities' and 'plant communities' coexists in my files. I see no
solution but manually update all tags. But I have many thousands of
photographs, so I've leave it like it is.

BTW, you can see tag hierarchy in right metadata sidebar in XMP tab
in 'digiKam schema' as Tags List field. Regards,

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[Leonardo Canducci-2]

2009/8/24 Micha? Smoczyk <[hidden email]>:

> Leonardo Canducci wrote :
>
>> 2009/8/24 Micha? Smoczyk <[hidden email]>:
>>> Leonardo Canducci wrote:
>>>
>>>> They were there indeed but hierarchy was lost
>>> If I'm right, tag list hierarchy is saved in distinct XMP digikam
>>> schema.
>> Does that mean that tag hierarchy is recognized in digikam only?
>
> I think yes.
>
> I remember that earlier versions of digiKam I've used (0.9.x for
> example) tag hierarchy was saved using "/" in IPTC and XMP Keywords
> fields. But it was changed in some next version (0.10.0?).

It still uses "/" in XMP in the "tag list" field but not in IPTC. I'd
really like hierarchy to be consisten among apps. F-spot and geeqie
detect tag but hierarchy is lost.

What about the sync problem? Tags are didn't match XMP info until I
clicked sync with db in album menu. Could it be because I'm running
digikam in a gnome desktop? Should I take care about syncing db every
time I run digikam? It seems strange.

Thanks!
--
Leonardo Canducci
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[Milan Knížek]

Leonardo Canducci píše v Po 24. 08. 2009 v 21:34 +0200:
> It still uses "/" in XMP in the "tag list" field but not in IPTC. I'd
> really like hierarchy to be consisten among apps. F-spot and geeqie
> detect tag but hierarchy is lost.
>
This is a matter of preference, some may prefer to have keywords w/o
hierarchy in general purpose metadata (like IPTC).

Anyway, I do not think it is wise to tag images with several apps in
parallel. Not all of them will update IPTC or XMP (tiff, adobe, ...)
keywords the same way as digiKam does and you may actually get a mess in
tags sooner or later.

> What about the sync problem? Tags are didn't match XMP info until I
> clicked sync with db in album menu. Could it be because I'm running
> digikam in a gnome desktop? Should I take care about syncing db every
> time I run digikam? It seems strange.

I think that digiKam sync's images' metadata only on some operations
(like assigning a new tag), while it does not on others (like renaming
existing tag, moving tag in the hierarchy). The reason may be that
sync'ing on the latter operations would lead to high disk activity,
possibly comparable to what happens when you sync the complete database
manually.

regards,

Milan Knizek
knizek (dot) confy (at) volny (dot) cz
http://www.milan-knizek.net - About linux and photography (Czech
language only)

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[Leonardo Canducci-2]

2009/8/25 Milan Knížek <[hidden email]>:

> Leonardo Canducci píše v Po 24. 08. 2009 v 21:34 +0200:
>> It still uses "/" in XMP in the "tag list" field but not in IPTC. I'd
>> really like hierarchy to be consisten among apps. F-spot and geeqie
>> detect tag but hierarchy is lost.
>>
> This is a matter of preference, some may prefer to have keywords w/o
> hierarchy in general purpose metadata (like IPTC).
>
> Anyway, I do not think it is wise to tag images with several apps in
> parallel. Not all of them will update IPTC or XMP (tiff, adobe, ...)
> keywords the same way as digiKam does and you may actually get a mess in
> tags sooner or later.

I don't plan to tag photo with several apps but I definitely want
compatibility with other apps and OSs (my wife's mac or my parent's pc
or other some other linux box with a capable viewer). I expect photos
to last longer (50 years?) than any app I'm currently using  and for
what concern tagging sure I don't want to start over every time I'm
forced to change platform. Tagging is very time consuming and can only
be done a short time after a picture is taken.

>
>> What about the sync problem? Tags are didn't match XMP info until I
>> clicked sync with db in album menu. Could it be because I'm running
>> digikam in a gnome desktop? Should I take care about syncing db every
>> time I run digikam? It seems strange.
>
> I think that digiKam sync's images' metadata only on some operations
> (like assigning a new tag), while it does not on others (like renaming
> existing tag, moving tag in the hierarchy). The reason may be that
> sync'ing on the latter operations would lead to high disk activity,
> possibly comparable to what happens when you sync the complete database
> manually.

I only assigned new tags to photos. Some of them were saved as XMP and
IPTC data, some not and some were assigned to the wrong JPEG while
tags showed in thumbnails were right. Anyway what I would expect is
that when I tag a photo data is written immediately on JPEG metadata
as set in preferences. I assumed that db syncing was an emergency task
for currupted db or metadata info. Maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for helping.
--
Leonardo Canducci
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[Milan Knížek]

Leonardo Canducci píše v Út 25. 08. 2009 v 22:23 +0200:

> 2009/8/25 Milan Knížek <[hidden email]>:
> > Anyway, I do not think it is wise to tag images with several apps in
> > parallel. Not all of them will update IPTC or XMP (tiff, adobe, ...)
> > keywords the same way as digiKam does and you may actually get a mess in
> > tags sooner or later.
> I don't plan to tag photo with several apps but I definitely want
> compatibility with other apps and OSs (my wife's mac or my parent's pc
> or other some other linux box with a capable viewer). I expect photos
> to last longer (50 years?) than any app I'm currently using  and for
> what concern tagging sure I don't want to start over every time I'm
> forced to change platform. Tagging is very time consuming and can only
> be done a short time after a picture is taken.

My plan is to have the tags somewhere in the MetaData (if it is
xmp.digikam..., then it is fine). Once I possibly find a new application
for cataloguing my pictures, I will use some bash scripts (with exiv2)
to reorganise the tags to meet the way how they are stored with the new
application.

(I did the same when migrating from MaPiVi to digiKam - MaPiVi saved
tags in IPTC keywords using "." as a separator.)

Of course, it would be nice if digiKam allowed the user to set a
compatibility flag and store metadata in accordance with it. I just
wonder who would volunteer for implementation...

regards,

Milan Knizek
knizek (dot) confy (at) volny (dot) cz
http://www.milan-knizek.net - About linux and photography (Czech
language only)

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[Tim Jenness]

On Aug 26, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Milan Knížek wrote:
>
>
> (I did the same when migrating from MaPiVi to digiKam - MaPiVi saved
> tags in IPTC keywords using "." as a separator.)
>
> Of course, it would be nice if digiKam allowed the user to set a
> compatibility flag and store metadata in accordance with it. I just
> wonder who would volunteer for implementation...

There is a precedent for digikam 1.0 to handle metadata from other  
apps in XMP namespaces since digikam supports lightroom as well as  
digikam. I assume that once other apps start using XMP then it would  
be straightforward for digikam to also support those.

--
Tim Jenness



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