tag hierarchy wish 139547

[Daniel Bauer-2]

Hi Gilles,

I post this here, to not blow up bug reports with questions.

first: the toggle options work fine now.

My questions:

- Is there a reason to select "Not Tagged" too when clicking "select all"? (My
arguments why not to select it are in Comment #56...)

- I dont really understand the function of "apply changes" in Comments/Tags.
What is it for?

Changes are always applied, as soon as I click in another picture, on an empty
space in album, choose another album. So what makes the difference, if I
click "apply" or if I don't?

- Is the IPTC-stuff currently under development or shall I file some bugs I
thik I found in Rev: 621321 ?

kind regards

Daniel
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le lundi 8 janvier 2007 18:50, Daniel Bauer a écrit :

> Hi Gilles,
>
> I post this here, to not blow up bug reports with questions.
>
> first: the toggle options work fine now.
>
> My questions:
>
> - Is there a reason to select "Not Tagged" too when clicking "select all"?
> (My arguments why not to select it are in Comment #56...)
>

No of course, i will fix it (:=)))...

> - I dont really understand the function of "apply changes" in
> Comments/Tags. What is it for?
>
> Changes are always applied, as soon as I click in another picture, on an
> empty space in album, choose another album. So what makes the difference,
> if I click "apply" or if I don't?

Both are right. Some users cannot understand how to apply changes in picture
to change the current image focus. The Apply Changes is explicit... Also, you
have now a Revert button to cancel all changes.

>
> - Is the IPTC-stuff currently under development or shall I file some bugs I
> thik I found in Rev: 621321 ?

Witch IPTC-stuff exactly ?

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le lundi 8 janvier 2007 19:19, Caulier Gilles(UNTRUSTED, sender is
<digikam-users-bounces-+caulier.gilles=[hidden email]>) a écrit :
> > - Is there a reason to select "Not Tagged" too when clicking "select
> > all"? (My arguments why not to select it are in Comment #56...)
>
> No of course, i will fix it (:=)))...

Done in svn. try again.

Gilles
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[Daniel Bauer-2]

On Monday 08 January 2007 19:19, Caulier Gilles wrote:
> Le lundi 8 janvier 2007 18:50, Daniel Bauer a écrit :
> ...
> > - Is there a reason to select "Not Tagged" too when clicking "select
> > all"? (My arguments why not to select it are in Comment #56...)
>
> No of course, i will fix it (:=)))...

Good morning Gilles,
I've seen it now, fine, thank you.

> > - I dont really understand the function of "apply changes" in
> > Comments/Tags. What is it for?
> >
> > Changes are always applied, as soon as I click in another picture, on an
> > empty space in album, choose another album. So what makes the difference,
> > if I click "apply" or if I don't?
>
> Both are right. Some users cannot understand how to apply changes in
> picture to change the current image focus. The Apply Changes is explicit...

thats what I though

> Also, you have now a Revert button to cancel all changes.

yes, I've seen it, probably nice (I don't need it :-) )
>
> > - Is the IPTC-stuff currently under development or shall I file some bugs
> > I thik I found in Rev: 621321 ?
>
> Witch IPTC-stuff exactly ?

here we go:

1) first letter of top parent tag is not saved to IPTC ("Mytesttag"
is "ytesttag" in IPTC)

2) if a tag-tree is applied the same tags are saved several times:
        if tags are:
        - Mytesttag
                - testtag
                        - testtag2
        IPTC keywords will be (also note missing "M"):
        "ytesttag, ytesttag/testtag, ytesttag/testtag/testtag2"
        but should be just "Mytesttag, testtag, testtag2"

3) newly applied IPTC data is not shown in Metadata sidebar immediately:
        - select a jpg in album
        - check a tag in Comments/Tags sidebar
        - click "Apply Changes" (tags appear in album = ok)
        - open Metadata Sidebar: added keywords are not shown
        - select any other picture in album, then again select the previous pic:
          keywords are shown
        the same is true in similar way when removing a tag

4) photographer identity, credit, copyright are not saved to IPTC when
using "save as ..." (I've already mentioned this somewhere else)

if these are unknown bugs, shall I file 4 separate bugs or all in one or none?

Daniel
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professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch
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[Marcel Wiesweg]

I am currently working in this area (together with multiple selection, all in
one go). So there is a good chance that things will be fixed.

> > Witch IPTC-stuff exactly ?
>
> here we go:
>
> 1) first letter of top parent tag is not saved to IPTC ("Mytesttag"
> is "ytesttag" in IPTC)

regression in current svn, work in progress.

>
> 2) if a tag-tree is applied the same tags are saved several times:
> if tags are:
> - Mytesttag
> - testtag
> - testtag2
> IPTC keywords will be (also note missing "M"):
> "ytesttag, ytesttag/testtag, ytesttag/testtag/testtag2"
> but should be just "Mytesttag, testtag, testtag2"

This would be the expected behavior if all tags are checked, but a bug if only
testtag2 is checked. I will test for this problem.

>
> 3) newly applied IPTC data is not shown in Metadata sidebar immediately:
> - select a jpg in album
> - check a tag in Comments/Tags sidebar
> - click "Apply Changes" (tags appear in album = ok)
> - open Metadata Sidebar: added keywords are not shown
> - select any other picture in album, then again select the previous pic:
>  keywords are shown
> the same is true in similar way when removing a tag

I will test this.

>
> 4) photographer identity, credit, copyright are not saved to IPTC when
> using "save as ..." (I've already mentioned this somewhere else)

You can append it to 127583

>
> if these are unknown bugs, shall I file 4 separate bugs or all in one or
> none?
>
> Daniel
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le mardi 9 janvier 2007 17:34, Marcel Wiesweg a écrit :
> This would be the expected behavior if all tags are checked, but a bug if
> only testtag2 is checked. I will test for this problem.

No, Marcel, it's not a bug.

Storing the complete path for each tag is It the only way to store Tags in
IPTC and to restore later with the complete hierarchy. This is require also
about interoperability stuff...

Gilless
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[Daniel Bauer-2]

On Tuesday 09 January 2007 17:34, Marcel Wiesweg wrote:

> > 2) if a tag-tree is applied the same tags are saved several times:
> > if tags are:
> > - Mytesttag
> > - testtag
> > - testtag2
> > IPTC keywords will be (also note missing "M"):
> > "ytesttag, ytesttag/testtag, ytesttag/testtag/testtag2"
> > but should be just "Mytesttag, testtag, testtag2"
>
> This would be the expected behavior if all tags are checked, but a bug if
> only testtag2 is checked. I will test for this problem.
>

all tags are checked in the above sample, but
"Mytesttag, Mytesttag/testtag, Mytesttag/testtag/testtag2" really is expected
behaviour? Why? Are there any standards/common uses asking for this? If so,
well then I'm not nagging anymore. But if not, I think each keyword should be
saved only once, thus it should be "Mytesttag, testtag, testtag2" just as
also shown beneith the album thumbs.

> > 4) photographer identity, credit, copyright are not saved to IPTC when
> > using "save as ..." (I've already mentioned this somewhere else)
>
> You can append it to 127583
>
Yes, this is "my" bug which I didn't remember..., I already mentioned the
above in Comment #8 last december. Now I added some voting points :-)

Daniel
--
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professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le mardi 9 janvier 2007 18:24, Caulier Gilles(UNTRUSTED, sender is
<digikam-users-bounces-+caulier.gilles=[hidden email]>) a écrit :
> Le mardi 9 janvier 2007 17:34, Marcel Wiesweg a écrit :
> > This would be the expected behavior if all tags are checked, but a bug if
> > only testtag2 is checked. I will test for this problem.
>
> No, Marcel, it's not a bug.
>
> Storing the complete path for each tag is It the only way to store Tags in
> IPTC and to restore later with the complete hierarchy. This is require also
> about interoperability stuff...

To be more explicit, i will give an example. Imageine this tags hierarchy:

City
    \_Paris [x]
         \_Places
                \_NotreDame [x]
                \_EiffelTower
                \_Trocadero [x]
    \_London
         \_Places
               \_PicadilyCircus
               \_QueenVictoria
               \_R.A.F.Memorial
                           
In this case a tagged picture will have following IPTC keywords :

City/Paris
City/Paris/Places/NotreDame
City/Paris/Places/Trocadero

In IPTC metadata, we are not limited to add IPTC keywords. The Path stored by
digiKam in these tags is the path to the check digiKam Tags in digiKam Tags
hierarchy.

Why do it. Simple, imagine this case :


City
    \_Paris
         \_Places [x]
                \_NotreDame
                \_EiffelTower
                \_Trocadero [x]
    \_London
         \_Places [x]
               \_PicadilyCircus [x]
               \_QueenVictoria
               \_R.A.F.Memorial

Here, City/Paris/Places and City/London/Places are checked. If the complete
path is not saved in IPTC keywords, how distinguous both tags from Tags
hierarchy ?

This point is very important because IPTC keywords are used to backup Tags
from database into metadata. If you copy a pictures from a computer to
another one, when you will import this picture in digiKam, all IPTC keywords
will be used to re-create the digiKam tags hierarchy in database. Of course,
if a Tags path already exist it will not re-created.

If we store only the Tags name, not the path, we cannot be abble to do it...

Gilles

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On Tuesday 09 January 2007 19:07, Caulier Gilles wrote:
<snip>
> If we store only the Tags name, not the path, we cannot be abble to do
> it...

Why not store both?
One IPTC field for each DigiKam heirarchy, to allow reconstruction of the DB
and one for each separate 'leaf' tag for flicr and non-heirarchical storage
purposes?

I know this creates redundancy, but still, it might help.
Dennis
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[Marcel Wiesweg]

> City
>     \_Paris [x]
>          \_Places
>                 \_NotreDame [x]
>                 \_EiffelTower
>                 \_Trocadero [x]
>     \_London
>          \_Places
>                \_PicadilyCircus
>                \_QueenVictoria
>                \_R.A.F.Memorial
>
> In this case a tagged picture will have following IPTC keywords :
>
> City/Paris
> City/Paris/Places/NotreDame
> City/Paris/Places/Trocadero
>
> In IPTC metadata, we are not limited to add IPTC keywords. The Path stored
> by digiKam in these tags is the path to the check digiKam Tags in digiKam
> Tags hierarchy.

If I re-read the mail I misunderstood Daniel,
that he agrees with storing the complete path "City/Paris/Places/NotreDame"
instead of just "NotreDame" (and I agree, too!)
but he wishes that "City/Paris" is not stored as well. Example:

1)
City [x]
    \_Paris [x]
         \_Places [x]

will be stored as "City", "City/Paris", "City/Paris/Places"
whereas

2)
City [ ]
    \_Paris [ ]
         \_Places [x]

is only  "City/Paris/Places".
So here I meant this behavior is all right but it's a bug if 2) is stored like
1)

Marcel
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[Daniel Bauer-2]

On Tuesday 09 January 2007 19:38, Marcel Wiesweg wrote:

> > City
> >     \_Paris [x]
> >          \_Places
> >                 \_NotreDame [x]
> >                 \_EiffelTower
> >                 \_Trocadero [x]
> >     \_London
> >          \_Places
> >                \_PicadilyCircus
> >                \_QueenVictoria
> >                \_R.A.F.Memorial
> >
> > In this case a tagged picture will have following IPTC keywords :
> >
> > City/Paris
> > City/Paris/Places/NotreDame
> > City/Paris/Places/Trocadero
> >
> > In IPTC metadata, we are not limited to add IPTC keywords. The Path
> > stored by digiKam in these tags is the path to the check digiKam Tags in
> > digiKam Tags hierarchy.
>
> If I re-read the mail I misunderstood Daniel,
> that he agrees with storing the complete path "City/Paris/Places/NotreDame"
> instead of just "NotreDame" (and I agree, too!)
> but he wishes that "City/Paris" is not stored as well. Example:
>
> 1)
> City [x]
>     \_Paris [x]
>          \_Places [x]
>
> will be stored as "City", "City/Paris", "City/Paris/Places"
> whereas
>
> 2)
> City [ ]
>     \_Paris [ ]
>          \_Places [x]
>
> is only  "City/Paris/Places".
> So here I meant this behavior is all right but it's a bug if 2) is stored
> like 1)
>
> Marcel

Since Gilles explication of 19:07 I now understand the purpose of the way the
keywords are stored. So please ignore my mail from 18:53.

Daniel
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professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le mardi 9 janvier 2007 19:38, Marcel Wiesweg a écrit :

> > City
> >     \_Paris [x]
> >          \_Places
> >                 \_NotreDame [x]
> >                 \_EiffelTower
> >                 \_Trocadero [x]
> >     \_London
> >          \_Places
> >                \_PicadilyCircus
> >                \_QueenVictoria
> >                \_R.A.F.Memorial
> >
> > In this case a tagged picture will have following IPTC keywords :
> >
> > City/Paris
> > City/Paris/Places/NotreDame
> > City/Paris/Places/Trocadero
> >
> > In IPTC metadata, we are not limited to add IPTC keywords. The Path
> > stored by digiKam in these tags is the path to the check digiKam Tags in
> > digiKam Tags hierarchy.
>
> If I re-read the mail I misunderstood Daniel,
> that he agrees with storing the complete path "City/Paris/Places/NotreDame"
> instead of just "NotreDame" (and I agree, too!)
> but he wishes that "City/Paris" is not stored as well. Example:
>
> 1)
> City [x]
>     \_Paris [x]
>          \_Places [x]
>
> will be stored as "City", "City/Paris", "City/Paris/Places"
> whereas
>
> 2)
> City [ ]
>     \_Paris [ ]
>          \_Places [x]
>
> is only  "City/Paris/Places".
> So here I meant this behavior is all right but it's a bug if 2) is stored
> like 1)
>

Marcel,

This is not enough because when we import picture with IPTC keywords, we
create the Tags hierarchy using the path, and we check on the tag using the
last Tag name from the path. In your example, if you store
only "City/Paris/Places" with this hierarchy :

 City [x]
     \_Paris [x]
          \_Places [x]

...you will lost the capability to set on Tags City and Paris...

Gilles




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[Birkir A. Barkarson]

> Why not store both?
> One IPTC field for each DigiKam heirarchy, to allow reconstruction of the DB
> and one for each separate 'leaf' tag for flicr and non-heirarchical storage
> purposes?

Note that if you use Digikam to import to Flickr it will only use the
last word on a selected keyword.  I believe that is one of the behavior
you are seeking.

BAB
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[Jürgen Flosbach dk]

Hi Gilles

I found two bugs in the last svn version.

Do I report them as normal bugs through KDE-Bugtracking system ?

I'm not sure how this will be handled since its not a stable version.

--
With regards

Juergen Flosbach

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 20:34, Jürgen Flosbach dk a écrit :
> Hi Gilles
>
> I found two bugs in the last svn version.
>
> Do I report them as normal bugs through KDE-Bugtracking system ?
>
> I'm not sure how this will be handled since its not a stable version.

Let's me hear...

Gilles
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