strange behaviour of save and album in digikam 2.5

[Daniel Bauer-2]

Hello,

I cropped many .png-images in an album. When goig to the next image
digikam asks what do do and I said "save changes"(not new version!).

However digikam saved an _v1.jpg. And does not show the original .png in
the album anymore.... Pressing F5 several times did not schange anything.

a) how can I make digikam show what is in an album?
b) how can I make digikam OVERWRITE an edited image in the same file
format as before (here png)and NOT adding a _v1... version?

Thanks

Daniel
--
Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona
professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
personal facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mars.fotografo
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[Andrew Goodbody]

On 26/03/12 13:19, Daniel Bauer wrote:
> I cropped many .png-images in an album. When goig to the next image
> digikam asks what do do and I said "save changes"(not new version!).
>
> However digikam saved an _v1.jpg. And does not show the original .png in
> the album anymore.... Pressing F5 several times did not schange anything.
>
> a) how can I make digikam show what is in an album?
> b) how can I make digikam OVERWRITE an edited image in the same file
> format as before (here png)and NOT adding a _v1... version?

Settings -> Configure digiKam -> Editing Images

a) Tick 'Always show original images'
b) Un-tick 'Enable Non-Destructive Editing and Versioning'

I have not actually tried this and am not sure that it will do what you
want but it is what I would try.

Mind you saving a versioned jpg from an original png sounds like a bug
in the non-destructive editing code to me.

Andrew
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[Daniel Bauer-2]

On 27.03.2012 10:55, Andrew Goodbody wrote:

> On 26/03/12 13:19, Daniel Bauer wrote:
>> I cropped many .png-images in an album. When goig to the next image
>> digikam asks what do do and I said "save changes"(not new version!).
>>
>> However digikam saved an _v1.jpg. And does not show the original .png in
>> the album anymore.... Pressing F5 several times did not schange anything.
>>
>> a) how can I make digikam show what is in an album?
>> b) how can I make digikam OVERWRITE an edited image in the same file
>> format as before (here png)and NOT adding a _v1... version?
>
> Settings -> Configure digiKam -> Editing Images
>
> a) Tick 'Always show original images'
> b) Un-tick 'Enable Non-Destructive Editing and Versioning'
>
> I have not actually tried this and am not sure that it will do what you
> want but it is what I would try.
>
> Mind you saving a versioned jpg from an original png sounds like a bug
> in the non-destructive editing code to me.
>
> Andrew
>

(sorry for PM: since Kmail is not usable anymore I changed to
thunderbird and this entered your privat email when choosing "reply to
list"...)

thanks Andrew. Meanwhile I found these settings and digikam behaves
normal again (non-destructive disabled).

What I consider a bug is that I get (non-destructive enabled) 3 options
("save changes", "Save changes as new version" and "discard changes"),
but actually I don't see any difference between the first two choices,
as "save changes" also writes a new file, what I'd only expect with the
second option...

I think,
- "save changes" should be "overwrite original",
- "Save changes as new version" should do what "save changes" actually does.

Furthermore, after "save changes" the original is not visible anymore in
the album, only the new "_v1" version... I think, all versions, and
especially the orginal!, should stay visible. It is very confusing that
some of the images in a directory are not displayed...

But maybe I just don't understand "versioning" and as long as I can
deselect it, it's fine with me

kind regards

Daniel


--
Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona
professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
personal facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mars.fotografo
google+: https://plus.google.com/109534388657020287386
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[Marcel Wiesweg]

> I think,
> - "save changes" should be "overwrite original",

As the word "non-destructive" implies not to destroy existing files, it will
certainly not overwrite the original. In fact, with non-desctructive editing,
digikam will never overwrite the original. It will hide the original when you
save changes, so it looks like the overwrite of older times, but all can be
recovered

> - "Save changes as new version" should do what "save changes" actually
> does.

Save changes as new version will do what you achieved previously with Save As.
Both the source and the new version will be visible
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[Daniel Bauer-2]

On 27.03.2012 19:48, Marcel Wiesweg wrote:

>
>
>> I think,
>> - "save changes" should be "overwrite original",
>
> As the word "non-destructive" implies not to destroy existing files, it will
> certainly not overwrite the original. In fact, with non-desctructive editing,
> digikam will never overwrite the original. It will hide the original when you
> save changes, so it looks like the overwrite of older times, but all can be
> recovered
>
>> - "Save changes as new version" should do what "save changes" actually
>> does.
>
> Save changes as new version will do what you achieved previously with Save As.
> Both the source and the new version will be visible
>

Thanks Marcel for clarification.

I guess I now understand the point of view of "automatic versioning".

Now, playing around, I found the sidebar "versioning" and this makes it
much clearer to me. I also clicked on the info-buttons in the settings
and must confess that everything is explained very good and clear. Must
have been a hell of work to make this working!

So its my fault that I got confused. Sorry.

I was just updating my system and went back to work. Not finding the
originals in the album anymore looked to me like a bug and I couldn't
explain it...

Have a nice evening!

Daniel
--
Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona
professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
personal facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mars.fotografo
google+: https://plus.google.com/109534388657020287386
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[Andrew Goodbody]

On 27/03/12 18:48, Marcel Wiesweg wrote:
> Save changes as new version will do what you achieved previously with Save As.
> Both the source and the new version will be visible

Maybe it would be less confusing if it was still labelled 'Save as'? To
me the use of 'new version' suggests that it would do something
different from the common understanding of 'Save as'.

Andrew
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[Marcel Wiesweg]

> > Save changes as new version will do what you achieved previously with
> > Save As. Both the source and the new version will be visible
>
> Maybe it would be less confusing if it was still labelled 'Save as'? To
> me the use of 'new version' suggests that it would do something
> different from the common understanding of 'Save as'.

Hm the problem with "Save As" is that the user expects a file dialog to open
to choose a filename. I wanted to get rid of this obligation (I think there is
a wish in bugzilla to still be able to choose the file name, which makes
sense, but e.g. for my personal workflow I dont want to care)
So I thought I needed a different wording, still one short enough to fit into
the toolbar, and to emphasize that it's all slightly different with versioning
enabled. With versioning disabled, you're back to Save As

Marcel
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[Andrew Goodbody]

On 29/03/12 18:59, Marcel Wiesweg wrote:

>
>>> Save changes as new version will do what you achieved previously with
>>> Save As. Both the source and the new version will be visible
>>
>> Maybe it would be less confusing if it was still labelled 'Save as'? To
>> me the use of 'new version' suggests that it would do something
>> different from the common understanding of 'Save as'.
>
> Hm the problem with "Save As" is that the user expects a file dialog to open
> to choose a filename. I wanted to get rid of this obligation (I think there is
> a wish in bugzilla to still be able to choose the file name, which makes
> sense, but e.g. for my personal workflow I dont want to care)

Thanks for the explanation. I wonder how many would share your wish to
save a copy without needing, or in fact being able, to specify the
filename for the copy? For me, for anything other than Save, whether it
is versioned or not, I would expect and want to see a dialogue box to
specify name and location of the new file.

> So I thought I needed a different wording, still one short enough to fit into
> the toolbar, and to emphasize that it's all slightly different with versioning
> enabled. With versioning disabled, you're back to Save As

It is the very fact that versioning is enabled that is making the
wording confusing, at least to me. IMO a new version of a file should
still be logically attached to the original image whereas you are using
it for creating a new file that is not logically attached to the
original image. Perhaps 'Save changes as new image' would be better.

Andrew
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[Marcel Wiesweg]

>
> Thanks for the explanation. I wonder how many would share your wish to
> save a copy without needing, or in fact being able, to specify the
> filename for the copy? For me, for anything other than Save, whether it
> is versioned or not, I would expect and want to see a dialogue box to
> specify name and location of the new file.

This sounds like you want to switch off non-destructive. You can do this.

In the purest form of non-destructive editing, only the commands are saved, no
new pixel data, and the commands are reapplied when rendering the file. There
are examples in Google and Nikon software. We did not want to take this road,
applying complex operations on the fly does not seem feasible. So we chose a
road where we still have actual files on disk - the original, the tips of the
branches, and, depending on configuration, intermediate versions. Still, this
is not old save+save as. There is no need for me to specify a filename or a
location, I do not want to care. Digikam knows the versioning tree and can
show me the original and the edited versions.

>
> > So I thought I needed a different wording, still one short enough to fit
> > into the toolbar, and to emphasize that it's all slightly different with
> > versioning enabled. With versioning disabled, you're back to Save As
>
> It is the very fact that versioning is enabled that is making the
> wording confusing, at least to me. IMO a new version of a file should
> still be logically attached to the original image whereas you are using
> it for creating a new file that is not logically attached to the
> original image. Perhaps 'Save changes as new image' would be better.

For us technically inclined the word "create a new branch" has a meaning which
we know from svn/git and is what we do here. But for the average user, I fear
this metaphor would lead to confusion.
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