RAW workflow & digikam

[Sebastian Schubert-2]

Hi,

I'm just a newbie and would like to get some idea for a good workflow.
I want to shoot RAW files.  My idea:

1) download files to a backup folder
2) copy them to another folder, scan through it, delete bad ones and
keep the others
3) produce jpg from the files in 2)
4) tag and sort results from 3)

after some time
5) delete files in 1)


What do you think?  What would be the most efficient way to do that?  I
want -- of course -- have the final results in digikam.  Is an extra,
external raw converter a good idea?  To be honest, atm I'm quite
overwhelmed by all the sliders and stuff in these programs.

Is there a way to tag the raw files I want to keep (step 2) and the
final jpgs?

Thanks for any ideas!  Also if you know any tutorials, I am eager to
read them.

Sebastian

PS: Thanks for your work on digikam.

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Sebastian Schubert wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm just a newbie and would like to get some idea for a good workflow.
> I want to shoot RAW files.  My idea:
>
> 1) download files to a backup folder
> 2) copy them to another folder, scan through it, delete bad ones and
> keep the others
> 3) produce jpg from the files in 2)
> 4) tag and sort results from 3)
>
> after some time
> 5) delete files in 1)
>
>
> What do you think?  What would be the most efficient way to do that?  I
> want -- of course -- have the final results in digikam.  Is an extra,
> external raw converter a good idea?  To be honest, atm I'm quite
> overwhelmed by all the sliders and stuff in these programs.
>
> Is there a way to tag the raw files I want to keep (step 2) and the
> final jpgs?
>
> Thanks for any ideas!  Also if you know any tutorials, I am eager to
> read them.
>

Hi Sebastian,

I'm not sure this is the best way, but for starters, I can tell you my
current way (not that it cannot be improved, it can!)

I have albums more or less subject related and below that, date based
albums. Most of the time I shoot pictures of my daughter, so most
downloads end up there, I'm sure this differs for everyone. Another
(more?) sensible approach would be to download all files to a date based
tree and just tag them for contents, it's just that my legacy is like
this...

I shoot RAW+JPG, so I don't have to have a conversion step for all the
RAW files, however this takes up space and the need to clean up more
unwanted files when I pick and choose the best ones.

Sometimes you only realise the potential of a shot while you're doing
the actual postprocessing of the RAW file. A severely underexposed shot
may turn out to be a wonderful noisy black/white art photo ;-)

That said, all the shots you take will take more of your time, so best
to shoot well and not too much...

I guess it's a good idea to be quite ruthless in selecting the best ones
and not take too much time with the marking for removal and then later
removal.

Cheers

Simon
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[Dick Angus-4]

On Monday 25 August 2008 10:06:34 am Sebastian Schubert wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm just a newbie and would like to get some idea for a good workflow.
> I want to shoot RAW files.  My idea:
>
> 1) download files to a backup folder
> 2) copy them to another folder, scan through it, delete bad ones and
> keep the others
> 3) produce jpg from the files in 2)
> 4) tag and sort results from 3)
>
> after some time
> 5) delete files in 1)
>
>
> What do you think?  What would be the most efficient way to do that?  I
> want -- of course -- have the final results in digikam.  Is an extra,
> external raw converter a good idea?  To be honest, atm I'm quite
> overwhelmed by all the sliders and stuff in these programs.
>
> Is there a way to tag the raw files I want to keep (step 2) and the
> final jpgs?
>
> Thanks for any ideas!  Also if you know any tutorials, I am eager to
> read them.
>
> Sebastian
>
> PS: Thanks for your work on digikam.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

At point 3) I would keep my selection of photos (after cleaning out the bad
photos) in .png. Then convert to a  jpeg copy as needed. That way if you want
to do some cropping or adjusting later you haven't lost anything in the jpeg
compression

--
An old mainframer getting modern
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[Gilles Caulier-4]

Personally, i never shot RAW + JPG. Only RAW as well.

With 0.9.5 (current implementation), to import RAW in editor, you have 2 way :

1/ full automatized (default). You click on RAW, it's open as JPEG,
but image is loaded in editor in 16 bits color depth, not 8 bits (as
Gimp for ex.). With 16 bits color depth you don't loose quality and
you use the best workflow to fix your image.

2/ With the new RAWImport tool, it more easy now to customize settings
before to load RAW in editor.

Look my descriptions in my blog entries :

http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/370
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/365
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/364
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/332

90% of my changes/fixes are done is RAW image in editor, the rest in
krita. I never use gimp ! too complex to handle, do not support 16
bits color depth, do not preserve all metadata, etc... All changes are
saved in PNG which compress lossless and preserve all metadata (Exif,
Makernotes, GPS, IPTC, XMP)

In my computer, i never store JPEG, only RAW as digital negative and
PNG as transitional image. When i want to publish or print final
images, i just need to batch convert to JPEG.

Later we will implement versionning...

Best

Gilles Caulier

2008/8/25 Dick Angus <[hidden email]>:

> On Monday 25 August 2008 10:06:34 am Sebastian Schubert wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm just a newbie and would like to get some idea for a good workflow.
>> I want to shoot RAW files.  My idea:
>>
>> 1) download files to a backup folder
>> 2) copy them to another folder, scan through it, delete bad ones and
>> keep the others
>> 3) produce jpg from the files in 2)
>> 4) tag and sort results from 3)
>>
>> after some time
>> 5) delete files in 1)
>>
>>
>> What do you think?  What would be the most efficient way to do that?  I
>> want -- of course -- have the final results in digikam.  Is an extra,
>> external raw converter a good idea?  To be honest, atm I'm quite
>> overwhelmed by all the sliders and stuff in these programs.
>>
>> Is there a way to tag the raw files I want to keep (step 2) and the
>> final jpgs?
>>
>> Thanks for any ideas!  Also if you know any tutorials, I am eager to
>> read them.
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>> PS: Thanks for your work on digikam.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digikam-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>
> At point 3) I would keep my selection of photos (after cleaning out the bad
> photos) in .png. Then convert to a  jpeg copy as needed. That way if you want
> to do some cropping or adjusting later you haven't lost anything in the jpeg
> compression
>
> --
> An old mainframer getting modern
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>

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Dnia Monday 25 of August 2008, Sebastian Schubert napisał:
> Hi,
>
> I'm just a newbie and would like to get some idea for a good workflow.
> I want to shoot RAW files.  My idea:
>
> 1) download files to a backup folder
> 2) copy them to another folder, scan through it, delete bad ones and
> keep the others
> 3) produce jpg from the files in 2)

When you took all hassle to make RAWs don't develop them to JPEG, waste
of time. Use PNG or TIFF - digiKam has better support for metadata in
PNGs, but TIFF is industry standard (which is strange way to describe
TIFF but that is another story :). JPEG only for web presentation,
sending by mail, etc.

> 4) tag and sort results from 3)
>
> after some time
> 5) delete files in 1)
>
>
> What do you think?  

Generally yes. After more time you can consider to backup files from 2.
on DVD. Pro-photographer I know lately decided to even delete those
RAW files. Once properly developed they are not useful.

> What would be the most efficient way to do that?  I
> want -- of course -- have the final results in digikam.  Is an extra,
> external raw converter a good idea?  

Frankly - up to 0.9.4 yes, it is good idea. I used(*) RawTherapee and
assigned RAW filetype to RawTherapee in kcontrol so I could call it on
RAW files from digiKam.

(*) Note past tense :) With new RAW Import Tool all need for external
converters is gone.

But it is available only for brave (wo)men riding svn version ;) I only
hope there will be batch mode for this - there is still advantage
of RT over new digiKam tool.

> To be honest, atm I'm quite
> overwhelmed by all the sliders and stuff in these programs.

If you shot photo properly in 90% of cases you don't need to use them.

> Is there a way to tag the raw files I want to keep (step 2) and the
> final jpgs?

New exiv2 (still in beta?) should support some RAW formats.

> Thanks for any ideas!  Also if you know any tutorials, I am eager to
> read them.

I can recommend RawTherapee manual. While I don't recommend attaching to
the program itself ;) it explains nicely most terms which you need to
understand to work with RAWs.

m.

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

2008/8/26 Mikolaj Machowski <[hidden email]>:

> Dnia Monday 25 of August 2008, Sebastian Schubert napisał:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm just a newbie and would like to get some idea for a good workflow.
>> I want to shoot RAW files.  My idea:
>>
>> 1) download files to a backup folder
>> 2) copy them to another folder, scan through it, delete bad ones and
>> keep the others
>> 3) produce jpg from the files in 2)
>
> When you took all hassle to make RAWs don't develop them to JPEG, waste
> of time. Use PNG or TIFF - digiKam has better support for metadata in
> PNGs, but TIFF is industry standard (which is strange way to describe
> TIFF but that is another story :).

Note: When Exiv2 0.18 will be released, TIFF support will be perfect
in digiKam. Nothing will be lost as photo exif information and
makernotes. This is not the fault to digiKam, but to libtiff which is
badly designed to manage metadata.

Also, With Exiv2 0.18, digiKam will be able to write metadata onthe
fly with TIFF, PNG, JPEG2000 and TIFF/EP RAW files.

Gilles Caulier
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[Daniel Bauer-2]

On Tuesday 26 August 2008 00:04:20, Mikolaj Machowski wrote:

> Dnia Monday 25 of August 2008, Sebastian Schubert napisał:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm just a newbie and would like to get some idea for a good workflow.
> > I want to shoot RAW files.  My idea:
> >
> > 1) download files to a backup folder
> > 2) copy them to another folder, scan through it, delete bad ones and
> > keep the others
> > 3) produce jpg from the files in 2)
>
> When you took all hassle to make RAWs don't develop them to JPEG, waste
> of time. Use PNG or TIFF - digiKam has better support for metadata in
> PNGs, but TIFF is industry standard (which is strange way to describe
> TIFF but that is another story :). JPEG only for web presentation,
> sending by mail, etc.

I fully subscribe to this view.

> > 4) tag and sort results from 3)
> >
> > after some time
> > 5) delete files in 1)
> >
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> Generally yes. After more time you can consider to backup files from 2.
> on DVD. Pro-photographer I know lately decided to even delete those
> RAW files. Once properly developed they are not useful.

Depends... I'd not delete the raw files as those are the real originals.
Nowadays, where disk space is so inexpensive there's no need to remove data
that you might want to use later. A DVD cost less than a negative film with
12 or 36 exposures...

Some 25 years ago (yes, I am that old :-) )  I cleaned up my negative files. I
threw away what I thought were bad pictures, of models I thought, they don't
look good enough in the actual view of that time, of personal souvenirs I'd
rather didn't want to remember...

I was sorry about that more than once!

Your personal view of your pictures always changes with time. Could be that in
some years you consider a picture just valueless while you you now think it
was perfect, while pictures you now think they failed could become your most
valuable ones. Could be that the colours, the contrast, the clipping, size...
you choose today are not what you'd choose in a few years. Could be that the
colours, the contrast, the clipping, size... you choose today are not what
you'd choose in a few years. Could be that something that is of no importance
now get's important much later (like a detail in the background...).

If you choose photos of yourself, your friends, children... you choose those
you now think that they look good in the pictures. But later you will choose
completely different pictures, believe me!

So, if there is no really good reason to delete the RAW's, just leave them
intact, unaltered.

kind regards

Daniel

--
Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona
professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
erotic art photos: http://www.bauer-nudes.com
Madagascar special: http://www.fotograf-basel.ch/madagascar/
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[Sebastian Schubert-2]

Hi,

I subscribed to the list now, so sorry for the missing reply headers and
stuff...

Thank you for all your advice.  I played a bit and I think I've come to
a sound workflow:

1) Copy pictures from camera und put it into RAW folder with data as
album.

2) Tag RAWs as far as possible.

3) Develop RAWs to PNG with 16bit using batch RAW converter.  I think in
that case Adobe RGB is preferable as these pics are mainly for my
collection and digikam knows what it's doing, right? :) (problem see
below)

4) Edit PNG pictures or finetune RAW developing process of pictures that
need it.

5) As soon as digikam can write tags to RAWs, remove the RAWs from
digikam's database, ie copy them somewhere else, so there's nothing
twice.

6) be happy. :) (and backup a lot so to stay happy) ;)

Now ok and efficient?


OK, I have the following problem (it seems like a bug, if you confirm, I
file a report):  I set 16 bit colour depth in the RAW configurations
menu and I think I can remember having that setting work in the Raw
Image Converter and the Batch Converter.  Now, and I don't know why,
this does not work anymore.  I always get 8 bit, except when doing an
edit of the RAW file (Canon 40D's .cr2).  In the latter case I get 16
bit!

Also the result is not rotated probaly as the original RAW.

Have I set anything wrong?

Addtionally, but this is probably me and my monitor which is not
calibrated, the developed PNGs look a bit too light for me.  The picture
I see when I click on the RAW file in digikam is fine for me.

I also have a question concerning the input colour managment but I'll
use a different post.

Thanks a lot, it's really a great app!  As always I cannot wait for the
next version (call me chicken, but I won't use the svn version; I
already use to much of that kind :) ).  Somehow I cannot imagine how
someone could have survived say 10 years ago.  The next version of *PUT
IN YOUR FAV FREE SOFTWARE* has always a feature which one has always
needed. :)

Sebastian
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