RAW file preview using embedded JPEG ?

[Vincent Tassy]

Hi fellow Digikam users,

When browsing an album, the thumbnails for RAW files seem to be based on the JPEG embedded in the RAW file as they look similar to the JPEGs generated by the
camera (I shoot RAW+JPG).

However, when I click on a RAW file to display it, the preview is apparently based on a default rendering of the actual RAW data (the overlay on the screen says
"Half Size Raw Preview").
Depending on the type of photo (I shoot alot underwater), this default rendering is really out of whack (overexposed for instance) so this preview doesn't
really give you a good idea of the scene ... It's way different from the camera generated JPG.

Is there a way to tell digikam to display the JPG embedded in the RAW file for this type of preview instead of actually trying to render the RAW data ? In my
Canon camera, this embedded JPG is 1600x1200 which is enough as a preview for sorting, discarding photos and deciding which deserve to be developed ...

Thanks for your feedback !

I've looked through the settings so I don't think it's possible ... if you confirm it, I'll open a wish for it.

Cheers !

Vince.

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

2014-10-11 12:44 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:

> Hi fellow Digikam users,
>
> When browsing an album, the thumbnails for RAW files seem to be based on the
> JPEG embedded in the RAW file as they look similar to the JPEGs generated by
> the camera (I shoot RAW+JPG).
>
> However, when I click on a RAW file to display it, the preview is apparently
> based on a default rendering of the actual RAW data (the overlay on the
> screen says "Half Size Raw Preview").
> Depending on the type of photo (I shoot alot underwater), this default
> rendering is really out of whack (overexposed for instance) so this preview
> doesn't really give you a good idea of the scene ... It's way different from
> the camera generated JPG.
>
> Is there a way to tell digikam to display the JPG embedded in the RAW file
> for this type of preview instead of actually trying to render the RAW data ?
> In my Canon camera, this embedded JPG is 1600x1200 which is enough as a
> preview for sorting, discarding photos and deciding which deserve to be
> developed ...
>
> Thanks for your feedback !
>
> I've looked through the settings so I don't think it's possible ... if you
> confirm it, I'll open a wish for it.

No need. this is how RAW file are processed in background. This is how
the RAW workflow must be done.

To resume RAW is not JPG. If you want JPG rendering, shot in JPG, not in RAW.

There i no way to reproduce the complex camera firmware post
processing into RAW decoder (libraw).

Gilles Caulier
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Daniel Bauer-2]

Am 11.10.2014 um 13:35 schrieb Gilles Caulier:
> 2014-10-11 12:44 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:
...

>>
>> Is there a way to tell digikam to display the JPG embedded in the RAW file
>> for this type of preview instead of actually trying to render the RAW data ?
>> In my Canon camera, this embedded JPG is 1600x1200 which is enough as a
>> preview for sorting, discarding photos and deciding which deserve to be
>> developed ...
>>
>> I've looked through the settings so I don't think it's possible ... if you
>> confirm it, I'll open a wish for it.
>
> No need. this is how RAW file are processed in background. This is how
> the RAW workflow must be done.
>
> To resume RAW is not JPG. If you want JPG rendering, shot in JPG, not in RAW.
>
> There i no way to reproduce the complex camera firmware post
> processing into RAW decoder (libraw).
>
> Gilles Caulier

This is why I let my cameras make raw and jpg. For the selection work
the jpg's are way enough good.

Gilles, I think you misunderstood. Vincent does not want to change the
raw workflow, but have a possibility to see larger displays of the
embedded jpg. For selection purposes there is no need to start
processing each and every image, when in the end most of them are never
used/processed...

Daniel

--
Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona
professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
google+: https://plus.google.com/109534388657020287386
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

2014-10-11 13:54 GMT+02:00 Daniel Bauer <[hidden email]>:

>
>
> Am 11.10.2014 um 13:35 schrieb Gilles Caulier:
>>
>> 2014-10-11 12:44 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:
>
> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a way to tell digikam to display the JPG embedded in the RAW
>>> file
>>> for this type of preview instead of actually trying to render the RAW
>>> data ?
>>> In my Canon camera, this embedded JPG is 1600x1200 which is enough as a
>>> preview for sorting, discarding photos and deciding which deserve to be
>>> developed ...
>>>
>>> I've looked through the settings so I don't think it's possible ... if
>>> you
>>> confirm it, I'll open a wish for it.
>>
>>
>> No need. this is how RAW file are processed in background. This is how
>> the RAW workflow must be done.
>>
>> To resume RAW is not JPG. If you want JPG rendering, shot in JPG, not in
>> RAW.
>>
>> There i no way to reproduce the complex camera firmware post
>> processing into RAW decoder (libraw).
>>
>> Gilles Caulier
>
>
> This is why I let my cameras make raw and jpg. For the selection work the
> jpg's are way enough good.
>
> Gilles, I think you misunderstood. Vincent does not want to change the raw
> workflow, but have a possibility to see larger displays of the embedded jpg.

From iconview press F3

Press F4 to open editor.

You have 2 windows, one with JPEG preview, one with Raw import tool.

Gilles Caulier
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Vincent Tassy]

On 10/11/2014 02:00 PM, Gilles Caulier wrote:

> 2014-10-11 13:54 GMT+02:00 Daniel Bauer <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>
>> Am 11.10.2014 um 13:35 schrieb Gilles Caulier:
>>>
>>> 2014-10-11 12:44 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to tell digikam to display the JPG embedded in the RAW
>>>> file
>>>> for this type of preview instead of actually trying to render the RAW
>>>> data ?
>>>> In my Canon camera, this embedded JPG is 1600x1200 which is enough as a
>>>> preview for sorting, discarding photos and deciding which deserve to be
>>>> developed ...
>>>>
>>>> I've looked through the settings so I don't think it's possible ... if
>>>> you
>>>> confirm it, I'll open a wish for it.
>>>
>>>
>>> No need. this is how RAW file are processed in background. This is how
>>> the RAW workflow must be done.
>>>
>>> To resume RAW is not JPG. If you want JPG rendering, shot in JPG, not in
>>> RAW.
>>>
>>> There i no way to reproduce the complex camera firmware post
>>> processing into RAW decoder (libraw).
>>>
>>> Gilles Caulier
>>
>>
>> This is why I let my cameras make raw and jpg. For the selection work the
>> jpg's are way enough good.
>>
>> Gilles, I think you misunderstood. Vincent does not want to change the raw
>> workflow, but have a possibility to see larger displays of the embedded jpg.
>
>  From iconview press F3
>
> Press F4 to open editor.
>
> You have 2 windows, one with JPEG preview, one with Raw import tool.
>
> Gilles Caulier
>

Indeed, Denis, you understand what I mean.
I do shoot with RAW+JPG and at the moment, I sort my pictures by browsing, tagging, rating, flagging the JPGs, it's just more burden because when you apply
filters afterwards to find only your selected images, well you see your JPGs, not the associated RAWs ...
I never use the JPGs to edit the pictures, I work on the RAW files of course.

I don't want the RAW preview to try to emulate the processing that my camera makes to create JPGs ! I know all too well, it's virtually impossible ... I've
messed with dcraw and UFRaw etc for years ...

I would like the RAW preview to show me the JPG which is EMBEDDED inside the RAW file ! (which seems to be what we see in the thumbnails).

Image Preview (F3) doesn't show the embedded preview !

Look at the attached images for an extreme case (the photo is crap, but it's just to illustrate what I mean ... you'll see that the JPG shows really what I shot
whereas the RAW preview (F3) I guess tries to automatically adjust the exposure and shows me something that I would want to put directly in the garbage ...


I hope it's clearer now :)

And no worries, I know the RAW workflow and how it must be done ;) It's just that when the RAW preview shows you a horrible image, it doesn't help the selection
process :D

Have a good weekend,

Vince.

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

digiKAm will show Raw JPEG preview if you switch right PReview Option
in digiKam/Setup/Album section...

Gilles Caulier

2014-10-11 19:16 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:

> On 10/11/2014 02:00 PM, Gilles Caulier wrote:
>>
>> 2014-10-11 13:54 GMT+02:00 Daniel Bauer <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 11.10.2014 um 13:35 schrieb Gilles Caulier:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-10-11 12:44 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>>
>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a way to tell digikam to display the JPG embedded in the RAW
>>>>> file
>>>>> for this type of preview instead of actually trying to render the RAW
>>>>> data ?
>>>>> In my Canon camera, this embedded JPG is 1600x1200 which is enough as a
>>>>> preview for sorting, discarding photos and deciding which deserve to be
>>>>> developed ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've looked through the settings so I don't think it's possible ... if
>>>>> you
>>>>> confirm it, I'll open a wish for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No need. this is how RAW file are processed in background. This is how
>>>> the RAW workflow must be done.
>>>>
>>>> To resume RAW is not JPG. If you want JPG rendering, shot in JPG, not in
>>>> RAW.
>>>>
>>>> There i no way to reproduce the complex camera firmware post
>>>> processing into RAW decoder (libraw).
>>>>
>>>> Gilles Caulier
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is why I let my cameras make raw and jpg. For the selection work the
>>> jpg's are way enough good.
>>>
>>> Gilles, I think you misunderstood. Vincent does not want to change the
>>> raw
>>> workflow, but have a possibility to see larger displays of the embedded
>>> jpg.
>>
>>
>>  From iconview press F3
>>
>> Press F4 to open editor.
>>
>> You have 2 windows, one with JPEG preview, one with Raw import tool.
>>
>> Gilles Caulier
>>
>
> Indeed, Denis, you understand what I mean.
> I do shoot with RAW+JPG and at the moment, I sort my pictures by browsing,
> tagging, rating, flagging the JPGs, it's just more burden because when you
> apply filters afterwards to find only your selected images, well you see
> your JPGs, not the associated RAWs ...
> I never use the JPGs to edit the pictures, I work on the RAW files of
> course.
>
> I don't want the RAW preview to try to emulate the processing that my camera
> makes to create JPGs ! I know all too well, it's virtually impossible ...
> I've messed with dcraw and UFRaw etc for years ...
>
> I would like the RAW preview to show me the JPG which is EMBEDDED inside the
> RAW file ! (which seems to be what we see in the thumbnails).
>
> Image Preview (F3) doesn't show the embedded preview !
>
> Look at the attached images for an extreme case (the photo is crap, but it's
> just to illustrate what I mean ... you'll see that the JPG shows really what
> I shot whereas the RAW preview (F3) I guess tries to automatically adjust
> the exposure and shows me something that I would want to put directly in the
> garbage ...
>
>
> I hope it's clearer now :)
>
> And no worries, I know the RAW workflow and how it must be done ;) It's just
> that when the RAW preview shows you a horrible image, it doesn't help the
> selection process :D
>
> Have a good weekend,
>
> Vince.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Vincent Tassy]

Hi Gilles,

I was very happy with your answer. I tried it on my work computer where I have an old digikam 3.5 and it worked like a charm.

Now back at home, where I run Digikam 4.3 on a Fedora 20, there is a problem :/
Check out the following screenshots. The checkbox in the settings is un-ticked but the Raw preview still shows "Half size raw preview" ! (I've tried
closing/relaunching digikam)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qdWRlSUVLR1NHaE0/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qOVpqVkNvdVZLMjA/view?usp=sharing

What's even more strange is that when I browse my image collection, some CR2 files preview with the Embedded JPEG, some keep showing the Half Size RAW preview !
I don't understand the logic ...

Is there maybe a cache of those preview images ?
Any other idea ?

Thanks,

Vince.

On 10/13/2014 11:26 AM, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> digiKAm will show Raw JPEG preview if you switch right PReview Option
> in digiKam/Setup/Album section...
>
> Gilles Caulier

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Vincent Tassy]

Ok, here's something interesting ...

I have CR2 files produced by the 3 Canon cameras I own: 400D, 60D, S100

on my Home computer (Digikam 4.3) only the preview of the CR2 produced by the 60D show the embedded JPEG preview - previewing the CR2 from 400D and S100 show
Half size Raw preview.

On my work laptop (Digikam 3.5) all the CR2 files are previewed based on the embedded JPG ...

Odd isn't it ?

What I see by using exiftool -PreviewImage is that the embedded JPG of my 60D CR2 are 17Mpx whereas the embedded JPGs in the 400D is 2.5Mpx and the S100 2Mpx

Given that my home computer has a much larger screen resolution than my work laptop, could the behaviour I'm seeing be due to that difference in the available
Mpx of the preview JPGs ? Does digikam override the setting if it thinks there's not enough pixels for the preview image ?

Just guessing :/

Vince.


On 10/13/2014 06:50 PM, Vincent Tassy wrote:

> Hi Gilles,
>
> I was very happy with your answer. I tried it on my work computer where I have an old digikam 3.5 and it worked like a charm.
>
> Now back at home, where I run Digikam 4.3 on a Fedora 20, there is a problem :/
> Check out the following screenshots. The checkbox in the settings is un-ticked but the Raw preview still shows "Half size raw preview" ! (I've tried
> closing/relaunching digikam)
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qdWRlSUVLR1NHaE0/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qOVpqVkNvdVZLMjA/view?usp=sharing
>
> What's even more strange is that when I browse my image collection, some CR2 files preview with the Embedded JPEG, some keep showing the Half Size RAW preview !
> I don't understand the logic ...
>
> Is there maybe a cache of those preview images ?
> Any other idea ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vince.
>
> On 10/13/2014 11:26 AM, Gilles Caulier wrote:
>> digiKAm will show Raw JPEG preview if you switch right PReview Option
>> in digiKam/Setup/Album section...
>>
>> Gilles Caulier

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

Can you share with me a set of CR2 files to test here ?

Note :

- Yes there is a cache mechanism. The problem is not here.

- Raw preview extraction are managed by Exiv2 in first or Libraw,
depending of image size extracted. If Exiv2 return a smaller image
than screen size, Libraw is tried.

Code relevant of preview extraction from file is here :

https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/graphics/digikam/repository/revisions/master/entry/libs/threadimageio/previewtask.cpp#L204

Gilles Caulier

2014-10-13 18:50 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Gilles,
>
> I was very happy with your answer. I tried it on my work computer where I
> have an old digikam 3.5 and it worked like a charm.
>
> Now back at home, where I run Digikam 4.3 on a Fedora 20, there is a problem
> :/
> Check out the following screenshots. The checkbox in the settings is
> un-ticked but the Raw preview still shows "Half size raw preview" ! (I've
> tried closing/relaunching digikam)
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qdWRlSUVLR1NHaE0/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qOVpqVkNvdVZLMjA/view?usp=sharing
>
> What's even more strange is that when I browse my image collection, some CR2
> files preview with the Embedded JPEG, some keep showing the Half Size RAW
> preview ! I don't understand the logic ...
>
> Is there maybe a cache of those preview images ?
> Any other idea ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vince.
>
> On 10/13/2014 11:26 AM, Gilles Caulier wrote:
>>
>> digiKAm will show Raw JPEG preview if you switch right PReview Option
>> in digiKam/Setup/Album section...
>>
>> Gilles Caulier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Vincent Tassy]

There you go:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qd0d5OTBiaUN2ZDA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qVDdUWTBPelhrMGc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qTEJieFRTTFZ0WWc/view?usp=sharing

3 CR2 of my 3 Canon cameras.

I'll have a look at the code tomorrow.

Vincent.

On 10/13/2014 07:11 PM, Gilles Caulier wrote:

> Can you share with me a set of CR2 files to test here ?
>
> Note :
>
> - Yes there is a cache mechanism. The problem is not here.
>
> - Raw preview extraction are managed by Exiv2 in first or Libraw,
> depending of image size extracted. If Exiv2 return a smaller image
> than screen size, Libraw is tried.
>
> Code relevant of preview extraction from file is here :
>
> https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/graphics/digikam/repository/revisions/master/entry/libs/threadimageio/previewtask.cpp#L204
>
> Gilles Caulier

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Vincent Tassy]

Here's 3 CR2 files of my 3 Canon cameras.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qd0d5OTBiaUN2ZDA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qVDdUWTBPelhrMGc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A_V-o8tk0qTEJieFRTTFZ0WWc/view?usp=sharing

I'll have a look at the code tomorrow.

Vincent.

On 10/13/2014 07:11 PM, Gilles Caulier wrote:

> Can you share with me a set of CR2 files to test here ?
>
> Note :
>
> - Yes there is a cache mechanism. The problem is not here.
>
> - Raw preview extraction are managed by Exiv2 in first or Libraw,
> depending of image size extracted. If Exiv2 return a smaller image
> than screen size, Libraw is tried.
>
> Code relevant of preview extraction from file is here :
>
> https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/graphics/digikam/repository/revisions/master/entry/libs/threadimageio/previewtask.cpp#L204

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Marcel Wiesweg]

>
> What I see by using exiftool -PreviewImage is that the embedded JPG of my
> 60D CR2 are 17Mpx whereas the embedded JPGs in the 400D is 2.5Mpx and the
> S100 2Mpx
>
> Given that my home computer has a much larger screen resolution than my work
> laptop, could the behaviour I'm seeing be due to that difference in the
> available Mpx of the preview JPGs ? Does digikam override the setting if it
> thinks there's not enough pixels for the preview image ?

Yes there are some heuristics to avoid showing very small embedded JPEGs. I'm
currently not sure how that works together with the setup settings.

Marcel
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Vincent Tassy]

Ok, I looked at the code and made some tests to confirm what I thought I understood ...

The choice of using the embedded JPG or Half Size Raw Preview depends (between other things) on the screen resolution ...

It turns out my home 27" monitor is 2560x1440 and the Embedded JPG in the Canon S100 RAW files are 1600x1200. Digikam therefore displays the Half Size Raw Preview.

If I change my screen resolution to, say, 1920x1080, it displays the Embedded JPG !

Therefore, If I want to use those embedded JPG for preview, I need a smaller screen :D

Maybe this decision should be left to the user (a setting) instead of making an arbitrary decision ?
I tell you, looking at those 1600x1200 images on my screen is just fine for previewing/sorting/tagging/... the pictures ...

What do you think ? That would be a small change to make ...

Vince.

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

This file sound relevant ?

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205776

Gilles

2014-10-14 19:22 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:

> Ok, I looked at the code and made some tests to confirm what I thought I
> understood ...
>
> The choice of using the embedded JPG or Half Size Raw Preview depends
> (between other things) on the screen resolution ...
>
> It turns out my home 27" monitor is 2560x1440 and the Embedded JPG in the
> Canon S100 RAW files are 1600x1200. Digikam therefore displays the Half Size
> Raw Preview.
>
> If I change my screen resolution to, say, 1920x1080, it displays the
> Embedded JPG !
>
> Therefore, If I want to use those embedded JPG for preview, I need a smaller
> screen :D
>
> Maybe this decision should be left to the user (a setting) instead of making
> an arbitrary decision ?
> I tell you, looking at those 1600x1200 images on my screen is just fine for
> previewing/sorting/tagging/... the pictures ...
>
> What do you think ? That would be a small change to make ...
>
> Vince.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Vincent Tassy]

Yes ! That sounds right !

Vincent.

On 10/16/2014 08:14 AM, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> This file sound relevant ?
>
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205776
>
> Gilles
>


_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

Well please post all your information to this report. Bugzilla is more
safe in time than mailing list.

Gilles Caulier

2014-10-16 19:33 GMT+02:00 Vincent Tassy <[hidden email]>:

> Yes ! That sounds right !
>
> Vincent.
>
> On 10/16/2014 08:14 AM, Gilles Caulier wrote:
>>
>> This file sound relevant ?
>>
>> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205776
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users