Photoshop and the Gimp

[Graham-23]

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I have the Gimp on my system (Kubuntu Feisty) amended to make it
Gimpshop.

I appreciated that Gimpshop is just a reordering of the Gimp menus to
make it more like Photoshop without giving it any other functionality,
however, this appears to be the most Photoshop-like application
available in Linux.

The problem before me is that in September I shall be following a course
in Photography that presupposes you have Photoshop installed on your
computer and you are given add-ons that work like plug-ins to
Photoshop.  I've raised this problem in some digital photography
magazines in the UK which usually run primers in Photoshop together
with DVDs of software.

Apart from its high cost, Photoshop doesn't run on Linux, so it seems I
am going to have to buy a cheap desktop to run WinXP or a Mac and
Photoshop unless....

Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is totally
Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of interface?.....
- --

Graham
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[Colin Guthrie-6]

Graham wrote:

> I have the Gimp on my system (Kubuntu Feisty) amended to make it
> Gimpshop.
>
> I appreciated that Gimpshop is just a reordering of the Gimp menus to
> make it more like Photoshop without giving it any other functionality,
> however, this appears to be the most Photoshop-like application
> available in Linux.
>
> The problem before me is that in September I shall be following a course
> in Photography that presupposes you have Photoshop installed on your
> computer and you are given add-ons that work like plug-ins to
> Photoshop.  I've raised this problem in some digital photography
> magazines in the UK which usually run primers in Photoshop together
> with DVDs of software.
>
> Apart from its high cost, Photoshop doesn't run on Linux, so it seems I
> am going to have to buy a cheap desktop to run WinXP or a Mac and
> Photoshop unless....
>
> Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is totally
> Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of interface?.....

No I unfortunately do not but perhaps other will.

Have you raised this problem with the course organisers? Perhaps the
course is aimed at Photoshop but the principles in terms of image
manipulate should also be achievable in other applications. I would have
though a good portion of the course would cover basic image editing and
manipulation using colour adjustment and unsharp mask etc.

In this case, it should be the theory behind the changes you are making
that is important to you rather than the "what to click in photoshop to
make your photo better" approach. Gaining this level of understanding (I
wont pretend I know anything about it!) would, to me, seem like the best
learning outcome to take from such a course.

If you tell the course organisers that you do now own Photoshop and that
you run Linux and will therefore use the Gimp and (seeing as we are in
this room!) the Digikam Image Editor to complete your assignments,
perhaps they will support you as best they can and perhaps your findings
and feedback will help produce alternative course notes for other
students who want to use Gimp (even on Windows) or Digikam.

I know that Photoshop has substantially more options than Gimp or DIE
and this is fine, but I guess you have to ask yourself if you are only
installing Windows/Photoshop to complete the course and will then revert
back to Linux or if you will stick to Photoshop into the future after
your course.

If the latter then I would suggest struggling through the course with
the tools you will use in the future would allow you to gain more knowledge?

Just a thought.

Also, although the later versions don't run too well, PS7 is supported
pretty well under Wine:
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=17

HTH

Col.

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

2007/7/13, Colin Guthrie <[hidden email]>:

Graham wrote:

> I have the Gimp on my system (Kubuntu Feisty) amended to make it
> Gimpshop.
>
> I appreciated that Gimpshop is just a reordering of the Gimp menus to
> make it more like Photoshop without giving it any other functionality,
> however, this appears to be the most Photoshop-like application
> available in Linux.
>
> The problem before me is that in September I shall be following a course
> in Photography that presupposes you have Photoshop installed on your
> computer and you are given add-ons that work like plug-ins to
> Photoshop.  I've raised this problem in some digital photography
> magazines in the UK which usually run primers in Photoshop together
> with DVDs of software.
>
> Apart from its high cost, Photoshop doesn't run on Linux, so it seems I
> am going to have to buy a cheap desktop to run WinXP or a Mac and
> Photoshop unless....
>
> Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is totally
> Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of interface?.....

No I unfortunately do not but perhaps other will.

Have you raised this problem with the course organisers? Perhaps the
course is aimed at Photoshop but the principles in terms of image
manipulate should also be achievable in other applications. I would have
though a good portion of the course would cover basic image editing and
manipulation using colour adjustment and unsharp mask etc.

In this case, it should be the theory behind the changes you are making
that is important to you rather than the "what to click in photoshop to
make your photo better" approach. Gaining this level of understanding (I
wont pretend I know anything about it!) would, to me, seem like the best
learning outcome to take from such a course.

If you tell the course organisers that you do now own Photoshop and that
you run Linux and will therefore use the Gimp and (seeing as we are in
this room!) the Digikam Image Editor to complete your assignments,
perhaps they will support you as best they can and perhaps your findings
and feedback will help produce alternative course notes for other
students who want to use Gimp (even on Windows) or Digikam.

I know that Photoshop has substantially more options than Gimp or DIE
and this is fine, but I guess you have to ask yourself if you are only
installing Windows/Photoshop to complete the course and will then revert
back to Linux or if you will stick to Photoshop into the future after
your course.

If the latter then I would suggest struggling through the course with
the tools you will use in the future would allow you to gain more knowledge?

Just a thought.

Also, although the later versions don't run too well, PS7 is supported
pretty well under Wine:
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=17

Right Colin, and i use it on my Linux box.

Gilles

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[gunksta]

> Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is totally
> Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of interface?.....

I think Krita deserves a mention in this discussion. It is a native KDE
application that in some ways is a better photoshop replacement than the
venerable Gimp. As I see it, the OP has 3 separate requirements. These are:

1) File Compatibility w/ Photoshop
2) Plugin Compatibility w/ Photoshop
3) Feature/Interface Compatibility w/ Photoshop

File Compatibility - This is important if the instructor provides
specific .psd files for you to manipulate. It would also be important if the
instructor asks you to submit your work as a .psd file. It appears as though
the Gimp has some ability to open .psd files, but this support is less than
perfect since the modern Photoshop format is proprietary and closed. Krita
does not appear to be able to open .psd files.

These links struck me as interesting, and potentially useful. Disclaimer: I
have never used the Gimp to open, edit or save a .psd file.
https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-user/2005-November/006847.html
and
https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-user/2006-January/007176.html

I think you should talk to the instructor about using file formats that are
openly documented. TIFF, PNG, and Krita files come to mind . . . although the
latter might be problematic for the instructor!

Plugin Compatibility is important if the instructor is providing plugins which  
you must use. The Gimp appears to have some rudimentary support for photoshop
plugins.

These links offer a lot of information about using photoshop plugins in the
gimp. Krita does not offer any support for photoshop plugins.
http://members.home.nl/m.weisbeek/gimp/#ps
and
http://www.linux.com/articles/53398

Feature/Interface Compatibility - This is where, IMHO Krita really shines
compared to Gimp. For starters, you get a layout that is photoshop-like,
without having to hack the program. It is not identical (neither is
gimpshop), but it is very similar.

Krita Screenshots - http://www.koffice.org/krita/screenshots.php

It also has a number of important features that the Gimp currently lacks. For
starters, Krita can work in multiple colorspaces like LAB that the Gimp can
not work in. If your class gets into serious color management, you will have
to do some work in LAB. Speaking of color management, Digikam and Krita are
both capable of doing color management. Krita and photoshop both allow you to
have nested layers, which are truly amazing and useful. But, using Krita as a
drop-in replacement will take some effort. Some tools are different in Krita
than they are in photoshop. For example, there is no obvious dodge or burn
tool in the menu. Instead, you can "Paint with Filters" which give you the
same (and MUCH more) effects.

It is my understanding that the Gimp developers are working on adding some of
these features to the next version of the Gimp, but Krita can do this today.
So, in many ways, Krita is a better interface/feature replacement but it
lacks a couple of useful things that the Gimp has.

My 10 cents of advice: Talk to the professor and see what compatibilty is
absolutely required to successfully complete the course. You may wind up
using multiple tools if you want to use ONLY open source tools. That being
said, a copy of Cross-Over Office will let you (supposedly) run up to
Photoshop 9, which may be enough for the course.

--andy
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[Graham-23]

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On Friday 13 Jul 2007, Colin Guthrie wrote:

[snipped]

> > Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is
> > totally Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of
> > interface?.....
>
> No I unfortunately do not but perhaps other will.
>
> Have you raised this problem with the course organisers? Perhaps the
> course is aimed at Photoshop but the principles in terms of image
> manipulate should also be achievable in other applications. I would
> have though a good portion of the course would cover basic image
> editing and manipulation using colour adjustment and unsharp mask
> etc.

Yes, I have raised it and explained that the nearest software that I
have is Gimpshop, as I am a total Linux user.  They look at me
quizzically and ask if is that a version of MacOS because there is a
version of Photoshop for the Mac....

> In this case, it should be the theory behind the changes you are
> making that is important to you rather than the "what to click in
> photoshop to make your photo better" approach. Gaining this level of
> understanding (I wont pretend I know anything about it!) would, to
> me, seem like the best learning outcome to take from such a course.

The course is one for digital photography, but involves a fair amount
relating to Photoshop.  The extra brushes, effects, etc which are the
subject of the software handouts, are Photoshop specific.  One of the
course books is "Digital Image Making: A Complete Visual Guide For
Photographers" by Les Meehan is totally Photoshop-based even down to
shortcuts through the menus to get to the desired effects tools.  I've
tried doing this with Gimpshop without success for the most part.  If I
could get a How-To to find out how to do the same thing in Gimp or
Gimpshop as I can do in Photoshop, it would be a help.

> If you tell the course organisers that you do now own Photoshop and
> that you run Linux and will therefore use the Gimp and (seeing as we
> are in this room!) the Digikam Image Editor to complete your
> assignments, perhaps they will support you as best they can and
> perhaps your findings and feedback will help produce alternative
> course notes for other students who want to use Gimp (even on
> Windows) or Digikam.

I've done that, because you can use the Gimp in Windows and (I think)
under MacOSX, and it is a free, open source, alternative option that
should be promoted.  As I've explained, Linux is not part of the
computer worlds which the course leaders are familiar with.  Also,
there appears to be no books available on coversion of Photoshop
operations to the Gimp.  This is an area which calls out for a REALLY
good book....

> I know that Photoshop has substantially more options than Gimp or DIE
> and this is fine, but I guess you have to ask yourself if you are
> only installing Windows/Photoshop to complete the course and will
> then revert back to Linux or if you will stick to Photoshop into the
> future after your course.

Well, I've just found out that CrossOver Office supports Photoshop in
various versions, so that would DEFINITELY be a cheaper option than
buying another PC, and seems the option to follow for the course.  
Looking at the Codeweavers website I should avoid v 3.0 and CS but
v4.0, 5.0, 6.0, 7.0 are known to work with Crossover Office.

Yet it still might be an opportunity to evangelise KDE, digiKam, and
Gimp without the high cost overhead.

>
> If the latter then I would suggest struggling through the course with
> the tools you will use in the future would allow you to gain more
> knowledge?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Also, although the later versions don't run too well, PS7 is
> supported pretty well under Wine:
> http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=17
>
> HTH
>
> Col.

Thanks for your help.  Since looking around I've found a book
called "The Digital Photographer's Guide To The Gimp" (or something
similar!), so if its not too expensive, my course leaders might each
get a copy.....

- --

Graham
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[Arnd Baecker]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Graham wrote:

[...]
> If I
> could get a How-To to find out how to do the same thing in Gimp or
> Gimpshop as I can do in Photoshop, it would be a help.

A really good book about gimp is
  http://gimp-savvy.com/BOOK/
(free online version, or with debian based systems:
``aptitude install grokking-the-gimp`` ;-)

Best, Arnd
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[arve-2-2]

Arnd Baecker skrev:

> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Graham wrote:
>
>
> A really good book about gimp is
>   http://gimp-savvy.com/BOOK/
> (free online version, or with debian based systems:
> ``aptitude install grokking-the-gimp`` ;-)
>
> Best, Arnd
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> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>

Another good one is "Beginning GIMP: From Novice to Professional"
Available from Apress as eBook (downloadable pdf) for $25. This includes
som of the new stuff in 2.3.x version.

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Dnia piątek 13 lipiec 2007, Graham napisał:
>
> Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is totally
> Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of interface?.....

I think nothing is totally Photoshop compatible because of its size :)

There is program which looks like carbon copy of interface: Pixel

http://www.kanzelsberger.com/

Not free.

I would be very interested in real experiences with this program.

m.



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[Graham-23]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:02:56 +0200
Mikolaj Machowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dnia piątek 13 lipiec 2007, Graham napisał:
> >
> > Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is
> > totally Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of
> > interface?.....
>
> I think nothing is totally Photoshop compatible because of its size :)
>
> There is program which looks like carbon copy of interface: Pixel
>
> http://www.kanzelsberger.com/
>
> Not free.
>
> I would be very interested in real experiences with this program.
>

So would I: it looks interesting!

To correct some information I gave in a previous posting, here is the
details of the book I've found:

Title: GIMP2 for Photographers
Author: Klaus Golker
Pages:200
ISBN-10: 1933952032; ISBN-13: 978-1933952031

This text evolved from the classroom materials the author
developed and used in courses and workshops on image editing with the
GIMP. It covers the basics of image editing and guides the reader
through the functions and tools of GIMP from simple adjustments to more
advanced techniques with layers and masks. Image Editing has become a
key element in the photographic workflow. Image editing tools, most
notably Photoshop, are usually sophisticated and deep applications -
and fairly expensive. The only open source tool in this market is the
GIMP, which has developed into a powerful multiplatform system, running
on Linux, as well as OS X and Windows. This book has evolved from the
classroom materials the author developed and used in courses and
workshops on Image Editing with the GIMP. It covers the basics of image
editing and guides the reader through the functions and tools of GIMP
from simple adjustments ! to more advanced techniques with layers and
masks. The more important editing functions are presented in individual
workshops. Moreover, the book covers the stitching of panoramic images
and preparation of high-quality black and white images. 1 Basics 12
Using the GIMP : correcting and touching up your images 313 Using masks
and layers - painting, filling, and color tools 814 Working with
black-and-white and color images 1575 Appendix 179

Apparently the author runs courses on digital photography using the
GIMP in Germany, and the text is taken from his classroom notes with
feedback from students.  Might be a good investment for my course.....

The price quoted is usually around the £20 mark, but I see Amazon are
selling it with "Beginning GIMP: From Novice To Professional" for
£47.63.  It's a bit on the expensive side but nowhere near expensive as
buying Photoshop (around £600 when I last looked!).

HTH

--

Graham

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Dnia sobota 14 lipiec 2007, Graham napisał:

> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:02:56 +0200
>
> Mikolaj Machowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Dnia piątek 13 lipiec 2007, Graham napisał:
> > > Do any on this forum know of any application for Linux that is
> > > totally Photoshop compatible, even down to the same type of
> > > interface?.....
> >
> > I think nothing is totally Photoshop compatible because of its size :)
> >
> > There is program which looks like carbon copy of interface: Pixel
> >
> > http://www.kanzelsberger.com/
> >
> > Not free.
> >
> > I would be very interested in real experiences with this program.
>
> So would I: it looks interesting!

Tried demo:

1. It is FAST.
2. Current beta is buggy.
3. I am more accustomed to GIMP model than I thought ;)

m.

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