Lost tags (was: Re: digiKam 3.5.0 import/rename not working as expected)

[Andreas Mair-2]

Hi Gilles,

the list looks promising and I really can't wait to see release 4.0. I
guess I set up a VM where I can test digiKam betas.

In the meantime I tried to find some photos in digiKam for a new
printed photoalbum and wondered why I couldn't find photos I new I had
taken by using tags.
Well, to make a long story short: digiKam must have lost lots of the
tags I set on my photos. Actually it seems that only photos taken by
my daughter lost their tags. She started taking photos 2007 and she
took thousands of photos. Now I all have to review them and tag them
again.
I don't know when or why that that happened, but that helps to lose
faith in digiKam...

Best regards,
Andreas


2014-02-08 18:09 GMT+01:00 Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]>:

> 2014-02-08 17:22 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi Gilles,
>>
>> you suggest to use a beta release?
>> No go! First it's not (yet) in Gentoo, second I don't trust digiKam
>> betas because IHMO digiKam finals often have features not working as
>> expected and I don't think betas will do better :-(
>>
>> Don't get me wrong:
>> I really don't want to rant, I really loved the rock solid digiKam
>> <2.0, but starting with digiKam 2.0 I've always had problems with this
>> or that feature. For example renaming at imports didn't work for me
>> since 3.2.0 (release 2013-05-15). With 4.0.0 coming in May this year
>> this means a full year with a broken feature.
>
> A lots of previous features are restored now.
>
> Just take a look to current list of bugzilla files closed :
>
> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?f1=cf_versionfixedin&o1=equals&query_format=advanced&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=NEEDSINFO&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&v1=4.0.0&product=digikam&product=digikamimageplugins&product=kipiplugins&product=showfoto&list_id=927158
>
> Why we wait more time with 4.0.0 : because we want a good release...
>
> Gilles Caulier
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
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[Andreas Mair-2]

Hi,

searching the Internet I think I've found the reason of the lost tags:
Last year I bought a new PC where I now have enough harddisk space to
hold my complete collection of photos. So I moved that part of my
collection that used to be stored on an external drive to fixed drive.
I didn't know that I better move them using digiKam and thus did it on
the command line.

As I didn't do much in digiKam since then (at least less then I did
before), I grabbed digikam4.db and the external pictures from my
backups. Now the lost tags are back :-)
After that I started to move those photos to my fixed drived using
digiKam. Doing this I noticed that some photos in *one* folder lose
their tags while moving them. I don't know why. Any ideas?

Now I've one big folder tree left that has to be moved, but I'm scared
to move them because I don't want to lose the tags of those 4900
photos.
Is there anything I can do before I do the move?
Export the tags so that I can import them later?

Best regards,
Andreas


2014-02-09 7:39 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Gilles,
>
> the list looks promising and I really can't wait to see release 4.0. I
> guess I set up a VM where I can test digiKam betas.
>
> In the meantime I tried to find some photos in digiKam for a new
> printed photoalbum and wondered why I couldn't find photos I new I had
> taken by using tags.
> Well, to make a long story short: digiKam must have lost lots of the
> tags I set on my photos. Actually it seems that only photos taken by
> my daughter lost their tags. She started taking photos 2007 and she
> took thousands of photos. Now I all have to review them and tag them
> again.
> I don't know when or why that that happened, but that helps to lose
> faith in digiKam...
>
> Best regards,
> Andreas
>
>
> 2014-02-08 18:09 GMT+01:00 Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]>:
>> 2014-02-08 17:22 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi Gilles,
>>>
>>> you suggest to use a beta release?
>>> No go! First it's not (yet) in Gentoo, second I don't trust digiKam
>>> betas because IHMO digiKam finals often have features not working as
>>> expected and I don't think betas will do better :-(
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong:
>>> I really don't want to rant, I really loved the rock solid digiKam
>>> <2.0, but starting with digiKam 2.0 I've always had problems with this
>>> or that feature. For example renaming at imports didn't work for me
>>> since 3.2.0 (release 2013-05-15). With 4.0.0 coming in May this year
>>> this means a full year with a broken feature.
>>
>> A lots of previous features are restored now.
>>
>> Just take a look to current list of bugzilla files closed :
>>
>> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?f1=cf_versionfixedin&o1=equals&query_format=advanced&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=NEEDSINFO&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&v1=4.0.0&product=digikam&product=digikamimageplugins&product=kipiplugins&product=showfoto&list_id=927158
>>
>> Why we wait more time with 4.0.0 : because we want a good release...
>>
>> Gilles Caulier
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digikam-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Andreas Mair-2]

Hi,

no ideas?

What about XMP sidecar files?
I'm thinking of syncing the photos' metadata  to XMP sidecar files and
then move the files to the destination folder.

Now I'd like to verify that each photo's tags are still all right. How
can I do that?

Any help appreciated!

Best regards,
Andreas

2014-02-09 20:44 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> searching the Internet I think I've found the reason of the lost tags:
> Last year I bought a new PC where I now have enough harddisk space to
> hold my complete collection of photos. So I moved that part of my
> collection that used to be stored on an external drive to fixed drive.
> I didn't know that I better move them using digiKam and thus did it on
> the command line.
>
> As I didn't do much in digiKam since then (at least less then I did
> before), I grabbed digikam4.db and the external pictures from my
> backups. Now the lost tags are back :-)
> After that I started to move those photos to my fixed drived using
> digiKam. Doing this I noticed that some photos in *one* folder lose
> their tags while moving them. I don't know why. Any ideas?
>
> Now I've one big folder tree left that has to be moved, but I'm scared
> to move them because I don't want to lose the tags of those 4900
> photos.
> Is there anything I can do before I do the move?
> Export the tags so that I can import them later?
>
> Best regards,
> Andreas
>
>
> 2014-02-09 7:39 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi Gilles,
>>
>> the list looks promising and I really can't wait to see release 4.0. I
>> guess I set up a VM where I can test digiKam betas.
>>
>> In the meantime I tried to find some photos in digiKam for a new
>> printed photoalbum and wondered why I couldn't find photos I new I had
>> taken by using tags.
>> Well, to make a long story short: digiKam must have lost lots of the
>> tags I set on my photos. Actually it seems that only photos taken by
>> my daughter lost their tags. She started taking photos 2007 and she
>> took thousands of photos. Now I all have to review them and tag them
>> again.
>> I don't know when or why that that happened, but that helps to lose
>> faith in digiKam...
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>> 2014-02-08 18:09 GMT+01:00 Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]>:
>>> 2014-02-08 17:22 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:
>>>> Hi Gilles,
>>>>
>>>> you suggest to use a beta release?
>>>> No go! First it's not (yet) in Gentoo, second I don't trust digiKam
>>>> betas because IHMO digiKam finals often have features not working as
>>>> expected and I don't think betas will do better :-(
>>>>
>>>> Don't get me wrong:
>>>> I really don't want to rant, I really loved the rock solid digiKam
>>>> <2.0, but starting with digiKam 2.0 I've always had problems with this
>>>> or that feature. For example renaming at imports didn't work for me
>>>> since 3.2.0 (release 2013-05-15). With 4.0.0 coming in May this year
>>>> this means a full year with a broken feature.
>>>
>>> A lots of previous features are restored now.
>>>
>>> Just take a look to current list of bugzilla files closed :
>>>
>>> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?f1=cf_versionfixedin&o1=equals&query_format=advanced&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=NEEDSINFO&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&v1=4.0.0&product=digikam&product=digikamimageplugins&product=kipiplugins&product=showfoto&list_id=927158
>>>
>>> Why we wait more time with 4.0.0 : because we want a good release...
>>>
>>> Gilles Caulier
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digikam-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digikam-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

2014-02-10 13:17 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:
> Hi,
>
> no ideas?
>
> What about XMP sidecar files?
> I'm thinking of syncing the photos' metadata  to XMP sidecar files and
> then move the files to the destination folder.

This can be a solution, if filename scheme is right of course.

After you re-import items to DB using right place on computer.

Gilles Caulier
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Jean-François Rabasse-2]

Hello Andreas,

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014, Andreas Mair wrote:

> Hi,
>
> no ideas?
>
> What about XMP sidecar files?
> I'm thinking of syncing the photos' metadata  to XMP sidecar files and
> then move the files to the destination folder.
>
> Now I'd like to verify that each photo's tags are still all right. How
> can I do that?
>
> Any help appreciated!

A couple of weeks ago there was a more or less similar discussion, on
this list. The thread started here if I'm right :
  http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/digikam-users/2014-January/018767.html

The discussion was, roughly, how to preserve metadata accross versions
changes, or environment changes. Perhaps you should have a quick look
at the mentionned thread. There were a dozen of messages with many
hints and considerations.

Anyway, you're right about XMP sidecar files. An application database,
as the Digikam DB, is for working data but can't be considered as a
safe archival system when one wants to keep metadata for a long time.
(Idealy, the lifetime of images.)

Also, the important point is to keep metadata associated with the
image. XMP sidecars do that, or XMP data rewritten into the image
file itself. The Digikam DB doesn't do that because metadata is
associated to images AND a physical device (removable drive handled
by UUID).
And that's what happened to you, when moving images from a removable
drive to a fixed drive, your images are seen as new images, and
existing DB metadata is lost.

With « exported » metadata in XMP format, it becomes even possible to
cleanup a Digikam installation, destroy the DB file, and restart from
scratch, scanning all new images.

Now, discussion about metadata in separate sidecar files, or in the
images files, is a matter of taste.
As for me, I prefer in the images files because, as sidecar usage is
not (or not yet ?) standardized, it's more easy to share metadata
with other applications.
(I personaly really appreciate to browse images folders with Dolphin/
Gwenview and have all my metadata, title, tags, etc. visible in
Gwenview.)

Hope you'll get some more advices and feedback.

Cheers,
Jean-François
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Andreas Mair-2]

Hello Gilles,

after moving the folder containing the photos using digiKam all their
tags were lost. Lucky me, I had created XMP files before and was able
to sync them back to digiKam's DB.

I think there must be some bug if someone moves folders/photos from
one collection to another.
I hope there's no bug if one moves folders/photos between folders in a
collection. Or if one renames folders/photos.
I'll try to find a way to compare different DB backups...

I've now activated reading and writing XMP sidecar files. *When* will
they be *read*?
Is it only for new photos and when I sync from metadata to DB?
I guess it'll *write* every time if I change a photo's metadata, right?
But it won't write if I for example rename a tag in digiKam's tag
structure, right?

Best regards and thanks a lot for your help,
Andreas

2014-02-10 13:24 GMT+01:00 Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]>:

> 2014-02-10 13:17 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> no ideas?
>>
>> What about XMP sidecar files?
>> I'm thinking of syncing the photos' metadata  to XMP sidecar files and
>> then move the files to the destination folder.
>
> This can be a solution, if filename scheme is right of course.
>
> After you re-import items to DB using right place on computer.
>
> Gilles Caulier
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Andreas Mair-2]

Hello Jean-François,

thanks a lot for your answer and especially for the link to the
mailinglist thread. It's very informative.

Best regards,
Andreas


2014-02-10 18:03 GMT+01:00 Jean-François Rabasse <[hidden email]>:

>
> Hello Andreas,
>
>
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2014, Andreas Mair wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> no ideas?
>>
>> What about XMP sidecar files?
>> I'm thinking of syncing the photos' metadata  to XMP sidecar files and
>> then move the files to the destination folder.
>>
>> Now I'd like to verify that each photo's tags are still all right. How
>> can I do that?
>>
>> Any help appreciated!
>
>
> A couple of weeks ago there was a more or less similar discussion, on
> this list. The thread started here if I'm right :
>  http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/digikam-users/2014-January/018767.html
>
> The discussion was, roughly, how to preserve metadata accross versions
> changes, or environment changes. Perhaps you should have a quick look
> at the mentionned thread. There were a dozen of messages with many
> hints and considerations.
>
> Anyway, you're right about XMP sidecar files. An application database,
> as the Digikam DB, is for working data but can't be considered as a
> safe archival system when one wants to keep metadata for a long time.
> (Idealy, the lifetime of images.)
>
> Also, the important point is to keep metadata associated with the
> image. XMP sidecars do that, or XMP data rewritten into the image
> file itself. The Digikam DB doesn't do that because metadata is
> associated to images AND a physical device (removable drive handled
> by UUID).
> And that's what happened to you, when moving images from a removable
> drive to a fixed drive, your images are seen as new images, and
> existing DB metadata is lost.
>
> With « exported » metadata in XMP format, it becomes even possible to
> cleanup a Digikam installation, destroy the DB file, and restart from
> scratch, scanning all new images.
>
> Now, discussion about metadata in separate sidecar files, or in the
> images files, is a matter of taste.
> As for me, I prefer in the images files because, as sidecar usage is
> not (or not yet ?) standardized, it's more easy to share metadata
> with other applications.
> (I personaly really appreciate to browse images folders with Dolphin/
> Gwenview and have all my metadata, title, tags, etc. visible in
> Gwenview.)
>
> Hope you'll get some more advices and feedback.
>
> Cheers,
> Jean-François
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Andreas Mair-2]

Hello Gilles,

I forgot one thing: After moving the folder I also lost some of the
album thumbnails I've set for folders.

Best regards,
Andreas


2014-02-11 11:48 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:

> Hello Gilles,
>
> after moving the folder containing the photos using digiKam all their
> tags were lost. Lucky me, I had created XMP files before and was able
> to sync them back to digiKam's DB.
>
> I think there must be some bug if someone moves folders/photos from
> one collection to another.
> I hope there's no bug if one moves folders/photos between folders in a
> collection. Or if one renames folders/photos.
> I'll try to find a way to compare different DB backups...
>
> I've now activated reading and writing XMP sidecar files. *When* will
> they be *read*?
> Is it only for new photos and when I sync from metadata to DB?
> I guess it'll *write* every time if I change a photo's metadata, right?
> But it won't write if I for example rename a tag in digiKam's tag
> structure, right?
>
> Best regards and thanks a lot for your help,
> Andreas
>
> 2014-02-10 13:24 GMT+01:00 Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]>:
>> 2014-02-10 13:17 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> no ideas?
>>>
>>> What about XMP sidecar files?
>>> I'm thinking of syncing the photos' metadata  to XMP sidecar files and
>>> then move the files to the destination folder.
>>
>> This can be a solution, if filename scheme is right of course.
>>
>> After you re-import items to DB using right place on computer.
>>
>> Gilles Caulier
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digikam-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-4]

2014-02-11 11:48 GMT+01:00 Andreas Mair <[hidden email]>:

> Hello Gilles,
>
> after moving the folder containing the photos using digiKam all their
> tags were lost. Lucky me, I had created XMP files before and was able
> to sync them back to digiKam's DB.
>
> I think there must be some bug if someone moves folders/photos from
> one collection to another.
> I hope there's no bug if one moves folders/photos between folders in a
> collection. Or if one renames folders/photos.
> I'll try to find a way to compare different DB backups...
>
> I've now activated reading and writing XMP sidecar files. *When* will
> they be *read*?
> Is it only for new photos and when I sync from metadata to DB?

yes, but not only. You can also force DK to re-read metadata from
image using Maintenance tool...

> I guess it'll *write* every time if I change a photo's metadata, right?

yes

> But it won't write if I for example rename a tag in digiKam's tag
> structure, right?

yes. You need to sync images metadata with Maintenance tool. In 4.0.0
we have introduced a new tags manager GUI to simplify these tasks...

Gilles Caulier
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[hidden email]
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