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tosca

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

2011/11/11 Martin (KDE) <[hidden email]>

> - subscribe to the only threads or forums you're interested in, by
This is one thing I never got. I have to read a RSS feed (or mail) and
click to a webpage to get the information I want. Why not bringing the
information in the feed/mail directly? This is the same with some of the
modern social things (so you get a mail stating that you have a new
information in your thread).

The key words are "the only threads or forums you're interested in". With a mailing-list, I receive everything in my mailbox, and I don't want 90% of them. This is multiplied by the number of lists I "am obliged" to suscribe to if I don't want to be "out of the loop".
With forums, I only suscribe to threads I'm interested in; and if something pass by, I can always go to the forum for browsing/searching; the information is there, organized, historized and available for anyone even those who where not part of it at the time the information was written.

Marie-Noëlle

--
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todd rme

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

In reply to this post by Martin (KDE)

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Martin (KDE) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 10.11.2011 21:36, schrieb Marie-Noëlle Augendre:
>>
>> I've been using a lot of forums for years, and find mailing-lists belong
>> to the previous era: it's either you receive everything or nothing
>> (excluding the daily digest that is "unreadable").
>>
>> But it is, of course, only my own opinion and usage.
>
> In the end you need both. Some things are easier with Mails (I can
> create a task out of a mail by one click, off-line reading) Some things
> are better done in a forum (graphical stuff at least).
>
> So I hope the mailing list will continue to work.

I agree. Having both is probably a good idea.

Most other major non-SC KDE software has their own sub-forum on the
official KDE forums. This includes koffice, calligra (separate
sub-forums for each), amarok, k3b, kaffeine, kmymoney, scrooge, and
tellico. Digikam is the only major exception that I can think of.

Amarok's sub-forum has its own structure with its own topic and
language-specific sub-sub-forums (these, and all posts, were migrated
from Amarok's old dedicated forum). So you wouldn't need to set up
your own software or your own website, you would just need to talk to
the forum admins about adding the necessary sub-forum.

-Todd
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Martin (KDE)

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

In reply to this post by tosca

Am 11.11.2011 08:29, schrieb Marie-Noëlle Augendre:

>
>
> 2011/11/11 Martin (KDE) <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
> > - subscribe to the only threads or forums you're interested in, by
> This is one thing I never got. I have to read a RSS feed (or mail) and
> click to a webpage to get the information I want. Why not bringing the
> information in the feed/mail directly? This is the same with some of the
> modern social things (so you get a mail stating that you have a new
> information in your thread).
>
> The key words are "the only threads or forums you're interested in".
> With a mailing-list, I receive everything in my mailbox, and I don't
> want 90% of them.

I see this as an advantage. I don't read every mail but in many of them
I take a short look and sometimes it is interesting an I continue to
read. With this I get new information or a point where I can help
others. This leads to sometimes very informative and knowledgeable
discussions.

Martin

> This is multiplied by the number of lists I "am
> obliged" to suscribe to if I don't want to be "out of the loop".
> With forums, I only suscribe to threads I'm interested in; and if
> something pass by, I can always go to the forum for browsing/searching;
> the information is there, organized, historized and available for anyone
> even those who where not part of it at the time the information was written.
>
> Marie-Noëlle
>
> --
> Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe
> <http://www.webmaster-en-herbe.net/>
>
> Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles
> <http://www.cevennes-plurielles.com/>
>
> Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale
> <http://www.marie-noelle-augendre.com/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

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tosca

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

2011/11/11 Martin (KDE) <[hidden email]>

> The key words are "the only threads or forums you're interested in".
> With a mailing-list, I receive everything in my mailbox, and I don't
> want 90% of them.

I see this as an advantage. I don't read every mail but in many of them
I take a short look and sometimes it is interesting an I continue to
read. With this I get new information or a point where I can help
others. This leads to sometimes very informative and knowledgeable
discussions.

Martin

I understand your point.
But I'm interested in too many different things to be able to scan even quickly everything that comes in.
As communities grow, they generate more and more traffic and that makes it difficult for everybody to read/follow everything.

My feeling is that mailing-list are well suited to not too big groups, exchanging information related to the "current and now" (I'm not sure I explain this accurately, but english is not my native language). As the community grows, with people having different interests, and wanting to search/read/comment past answers and discussions, and having access to the common knowledge, I think the advantages of a forum become proeminent.

Also people ask technical questions and request for help on the FB Digikam page too, as if it were a forum. But unlike a forum, the answers are not historized and organized properly, thus they are lost for future users.

Marie-Noëlle

Johnny

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

Marie-Noëlle Augendre <[hidden email]> writes:

> 2011/11/11 Martin (KDE) <[hidden email]>
>
> > The key words are "the only threads or forums you're interested in".
> > With a mailing-list, I receive everything in my mailbox, and I don't
> > want 90% of them.
>
> I see this as an advantage. I don't read every mail but in many of them
> I take a short look and sometimes it is interesting an I continue to
> read. With this I get new information or a point where I can help
> others. This leads to sometimes very informative and knowledgeable
> discussions.
>
> Martin
>
> I understand your point.
> But I'm interested in too many different things to be able to scan even quickly
> everything that comes in.
>
> As communities grow, they generate more and more traffic and that makes it
> difficult for everybody to read/follow everything.
>
> My feeling is that mailing-list are well suited to not too big groups,
> exchanging information related to the "current and now" (I'm not sure I explain
> this accurately, but english is not my native language). As the community
> grows, with people having different interests, and wanting to search/read/
> comment past answers and discussions, and having access to the common
> knowledge, I think the advantages of a forum become proeminent.

Maybe you should consider using filters and/or scoring in your workflow
if you are not already using it? Depending on how your mail client
works, the workflow would be different. My choice of "information
management client" is Gnus and I use this for all my mailing needs
(personal, mailing lists, several mail addresses) as well as RSS
reader. For mailing lists, I have set up a filter for each list which
separates the messages on a list basis - clearly, if one wants to one
could set filters on contents of the list (e.g. you could set a filter
to remove or include certain topics by filtering on headlines or any
other metadata (it may be possible to filter on body content, but I
never found a need for that). This is really what I do with mailing
lists, but it could be made much more advanced and flexible if you need.

For RSS, which is handled identically to mail in Gnus (from a user
perspective at least), I use a more "complex" setup. I have around 10
feeds relating to a topic area of choice, so I group all these in a
virtual group so it looks like only one. As I have various interest for
different subtopics, I have set up scoring rules on keywords that scores
up messages I am interested in to appear on top. E.g. you could set
"lightbox +100", "colour +10", "rating +40", "[hidden email] -1000" to
get messages relating to lightbox, rating and colour on top and messages
from spammer on bottom (and could be set to be automatically deleted if
you wish).

This is just an example of my usage needs, but once you got your
configuration set up, it is /very/ easy to follow hundreds if not
thousands of weekly messages by filtering away the uninteresting ones
before even being seen. You will only scan the ones being interesting as
defined by the rules. Actually, the only limit to what you can follow is
how restrictive you are - clearly, you need to know what you are
interested in for this to be effective, but this is the same for a forum.

>
> Also people ask technical questions and request for help on the FB Digikam page
> too, as if it were a forum. But unlike a forum, the answers are not historized
> and organized properly, thus they are lost for future users.
>

This is sort of a point I think. Mailing lists can normally be searched
though via e.g. Gmane (or Google) if you know what you're looking
for. In theory, forums should be better at categorising, but I find in
practise it is too unwieldly to use and I still have to search for what
I need (as could be done through Gmane or google for mailing lists).

The best I guess is to have a wiki where dedicated users (e.g. yourself
and Rinus :)) extract key information (e.g. emacs wiki) originating on
the lists.

Only my 2.

--
Johnny
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tosca

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

2011/11/11 Johnny <[hidden email]>

Maybe you should consider using filters and/or scoring in your workflow
if you are not already using it? Depending on how your mail client
works,

I don't use a mail client. I have a dozen different Gmail accounts, each for a different purpose, its own filters and parameters.

You will only scan the ones being interesting as
defined by the rules. Actually, the only limit to what you can follow is
how restrictive you are - clearly, you need to know what you are
interested in for this to be effective, but this is the same for a forum.

I'm a member of I don't know how many forums, some I visit almost daily; others I go to when I need some information, receive a notification from a thread I subscribed too, or am asked by private message.

With mailing-lists it's either stop and go; and the search is not as easy and fructiful as in forums. Very often, I go to a forum and eventually don't ask any question because I find the problem is already answered; or I can use an existing thread to ask for some details.
On mailing-lists, it's always (for me, at least) easier and quicker to send a new message, that will generate more traffic even it the same questions has been answered several times.

The best I guess is to have a wiki where dedicated users (e.g. yourself
and Rinus :)) extract key information (e.g. emacs wiki) originating on
the lists.

I don't think I'm a dedicated user"; I only spend a lot of time (too much, in my opinion) to "extract" valuable information from the list. I'd rather spend more time investigating and actually using Digikam, with more benefits for me and people asking questions.

Marie-Noëlle

alexander pylyser

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

In reply to this post by AT Ege

Imo a forum would be more accessible, filtering

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:23 PM, AT Ege <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi there,

alexander pylyser<[hidden email]> writes:

Good idea. I really think a forum would come in handy.

I'd think the advantage of mail is, that you can easily have your own off-line archive and don't need internet access to have a look at older stuff.
But maybe I just don't know enough about forums, I'm not using them often.

--
Andreas Ege

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alexander pylyser

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

Imo a forum would be more accessible, filtering and managing a mailing list takes some knowledge most of the average computer users I don't think have. A forum is clear and structured by itself rather than having it to be customized. That's the main reason why I would prefer a forum over a mailing list.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:41 PM, alexander pylyser <[hidden email]> wrote:

Imo a forum would be more accessible, filtering

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:23 PM, AT Ege <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi there,

alexander pylyser<[hidden email]> writes:

Good idea. I really think a forum would come in handy.

I'd think the advantage of mail is, that you can easily have your own off-line archive and don't need internet access to have a look at older stuff.
But maybe I just don't know enough about forums, I'm not using them often.

--
Andreas Ege

24 The Birches
Shobdon
Herefordshire HR6 9NG
GB
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B44.%280%297526.315292" value="+447526315292" target="_blank">+44.(0)7526.315292
Tel.: <a href="tel:%2B44.%280%291568.709166" value="+441568709166" target="_blank">+44.(0)1568.709166
http://spheniscid.net<span onmouseout="cancel = false; window.setTimeout(WRCHideContent, 1000); clearTimeout(showTimer);" onmouseover=" var self = this; showTimer = window.setTimeout(function(){WRCShowContent({'rating':{'value':-1,'weight':-1},'flags':{},'single':false,'ttl':3600,'expireTime':'20111111132948'}, self.className)},600);" class="wrc0" style="padding-right: 16px; width: 16px; height: 16px;">

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Bugzilla from ed_kiefer@hotmail.com

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

In reply to this post by tosca

I know i don't post much as a windows user but Forum has many advantages over mailing list . It would save you guys work in many ways .
Many questions are asked over an over so a few sticky/FAQ would cover a lot of questions .
With forum it is so much more organized , much easier to find answer or help others . Something mailing list is not good cause there no timeline to link up .

I was surprised when I first starting using DK that there was not a forum, for such a feature rich app .
Me as window user more than 50% of mailing don't really apply as most are other OS issues , but i end up reading some anyway cause you never know .

my 2ct
Ed

From: [hidden email]
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:09:25 +0100
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Digikam-users] [Digikam-devel] List moderation

2011/11/11 Johnny <[hidden email]>

Maybe you should consider using filters and/or scoring in your workflow
if you are not already using it? Depending on how your mail client
works,

I don't use a mail client. I have a dozen different Gmail accounts, each for a different purpose, its own filters and parameters.

You will only scan the ones being interesting as
defined by the rules. Actually, the only limit to what you can follow is
how restrictive you are - clearly, you need to know what you are
interested in for this to be effective, but this is the same for a forum.

The best I guess is to have a wiki where dedicated users (e.g. yourself
and Rinus :)) extract key information (e.g. emacs wiki) originating on
the lists.

--
Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe

Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles

Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale

_______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

tosca

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

2011/11/11 Ed Kiefer <[hidden email]>

I was surprised when I first starting using DK that there was not a forum, for such a feature rich app .
Me as window user ...

That's something I realised some time ago when I "left" Windows for Linux: mailing-lists seem to be less and less frequent outside the Linux world.
Last time I wanted to create one (for a small group of friends, I didn't want a forum) there were no other solution than using Yahoo Groups, that I have been using for a decade. All the other mailing-lists that I know are more or less related to Linux projects and hosted by Linux organisations.

Marie-Noëlle

Bugzilla from ed_kiefer@hotmail.com

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

Ok, didn't know that , this is I guess one of first mailing lists I have been on and as you says it priority is Linux based . I do use gimp an few other open source apps but they have forums , more popular apps .

you are right, most of projects i am on are yahoo or group based so you can configure any way you like (email notification or not) .
the only main advantage a mailing list has IMO is it is offline reading if you want and can save it .

Ed

From: [hidden email]
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:56:12 +0100
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Digikam-users] [Digikam-devel] List moderation

2011/11/11 Ed Kiefer <[hidden email]>

I was surprised when I first starting using DK that there was not a forum, for such a feature rich app .
Me as window user ...

--
Une galerie photos, un blog ... pourquoi pas ? Webmaster en herbe

Parcourez les Cévennes à ma façon : Cévennes Plurielles

Et toutes mes autres publications à partir de ma page d'accueil générale

_______________________________________________ Digikam-users mailing list [hidden email] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
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tosca

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

2011/11/11 Ed Kiefer <[hidden email]>

the only main advantage a mailing list has IMO is it is offline reading if you want and can save it .

Ed

I use Firefox as a web browser, and it has many handy extensions:
- ScrapBook allows to save complete pages on your computer, so you can read them later; I used it a lot, when I had "lost" my connection for 4 months this spring-summer: used a public connection to quickly access/save all the pages I had no time to read on-line, then come back home to read them offline.
- Read It Later is for saving/organizing links to pages you intend to read later; you need a computer for that, but it can be another one as you can access the list from anywhere if you use the optional synchronization option.

Marie-Noëlle

Martin Burnicki

Re: [Digikam-devel] List moderation

In reply to this post by Andrew Goodbody

Andrew Goodbody wrote:
> Please do not move this list to a forum. In my experience forums are
> slower to deal with than mailing lists. I am much happier keeping to a
> mailing list.

Same for me. I'd also prefer a mailing list.

Martin
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