[Digikam-devel] wiki for digikam (+kipi-plugins)?

[Arnd Baecker-2]

Dear all,

would it be possible (and of interest)
to set up a wiki for digikam related issues?

For example Gilles had a very nice and helpful reply to Daniel Bauers
questions on color management - it would be nice to conserve this
(and update if necessary) at an easily accessible place.

Best, Arnd

P.S.: Gilles and all the many people behind digikam+kipi:
      **many** thanks for this great software!!!
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Wednesday 20 December 2006 09:52, Arnd Baecker wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> would it be possible (and of interest)
> to set up a wiki for digikam related issues?
>
> For example Gilles had a very nice and helpful reply to Daniel Bauers
> questions on color management - it would be nice to conserve this
> (and update if necessary) at an easily accessible place.
>
> Best, Arnd
>
> P.S.: Gilles and all the many people behind digikam+kipi:
>       **many** thanks for this great software!!!

I'm agree for a wiki...

but i think it must hosted by digiKam web site. Right ?

Fabien, what do you think about. It's possible ? It's easy to do ?

alternative is this url :

http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Digikam

I have never used it

Gilles
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[Arnd Baecker]

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Gilles Caulier wrote:
[...]
> I'm agree for a wiki...
>
> but i think it must hosted by digiKam web site. Right ?
>
> Fabien, what do you think about. It's possible ? It's easy to do ?
>
> alternative is this url :
>
> http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Digikam

Though this might be nice as everything is already set up,
it has the draw-back that the "view recent changes"
will list the changes for the full wiki.
This makes it difficult to keep track of additions
to just the digikam component ...

Best, Arnd
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[Fabien-5]

Arnd Baecker wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> [...]
>
>>I'm agree for a wiki...
>>
>>but i think it must hosted by digiKam web site. Right ?
>>
>>Fabien, what do you think about. It's possible ? It's easy to do ?

It should be possible I think. It's very difficult to set it up, except
if we want to use the same design as the digikam website.
The only important thing to care is to prevent spams inside the wiki.

>>alternative is this url :
>>
>>http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Digikam
>
> Though this might be nice as everything is already set up,
> it has the draw-back that the "view recent changes"
> will list the changes for the full wiki.
> This makes it difficult to keep track of additions
> to just the digikam component ...

Yes, that's true.

Another alternative would be to use drupal and give some users the right
to create new pages in some contrib space...

--
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[Daniel Bauer-2]

On Wednesday 20 December 2006 09:52, Arnd Baecker wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> would it be possible (and of interest)
> to set up a wiki for digikam related issues?
>
> For example Gilles had a very nice and helpful reply to Daniel Bauers
> questions on color management - it would be nice to conserve this
> (and update if necessary) at an easily accessible place.
>
> Best, Arnd
>
> P.S.: Gilles and all the many people behind digikam+kipi:
>       **many** thanks for this great software!!!

   
           ^^^ I assent to this statement :-)

While I agree that conserving good explanations is a good idea, I think...

- if a Wiki, I guess access must be restricted to some who know what they are
doing and what they say. If it will be like Wikipedia, where everybody can
put in its opinion, it will be just as useless. I've read so much s**t in
Wikipedia, that I can imagine such a Wiki would soon have a lot of crap in
it.

- somebody would have to be the "manager", so that data is consistent and can
be found with useful indexes/links. The manager would also have to avoid that
the Wiki gets a place of discussion. To my eyes this is quite a lot of
work...

- As a suggestion: proposed entries for the wiki could be sent to the
Digikam-users mailing list, discussed/corrected/ameliorated there, and
then "the manager" places it on the Wiki (or not).

- The Wiki could then replace the FAQ's (they'd be moved to the Wiki). But it
could also be vice versa...

regards

Daniel
--
Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland
professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch
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[Fabien-5]

Fabien wrote:

> Arnd Baecker wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Gilles Caulier wrote:
>>[...]
>>
>>
>>>I'm agree for a wiki...
>>>
>>>but i think it must hosted by digiKam web site. Right ?
>>>
>>>Fabien, what do you think about. It's possible ? It's easy to do ?
>
>
> It should be possible I think. It's very difficult to set it up, except
> if we want to use the same design as the digikam website.

Oops :) It's *not* very difficult. I forgot one important word :)

--
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[Arnd Baecker]

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Fabien wrote:

> Arnd Baecker wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>I'm agree for a wiki...
> >>
> >>but i think it must hosted by digiKam web site. Right ?
> >>
> >>Fabien, what do you think about. It's possible ? It's easy to do ?
>
> It should be possible I think. It's very difficult to set it up, except

*not* very difficult ?

> if we want to use the same design as the digikam website.
> The only important thing to care is to prevent spams inside the wiki.

Yes, this is very important.
So it has to be by subscription (or even manual addition?)

> Another alternative would be to use drupal and give some users the right
> to create new pages in some contrib space...

Does this allow wiki-like editing etc.?
(Because a wiki provides a bit more than just setting up html
pages, in particular it frees from knowing html ;-)

Best, Arnd
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Alle 09:52, mercoledì 20 dicembre 2006, Arnd Baecker ha scritto:
> Dear all,
>
> would it be possible (and of interest)
> to set up a wiki for digikam related issues?
>
> For example Gilles had a very nice and helpful reply to Daniel Bauers
> questions on color management - it would be nice to conserve this
> (and update if necessary) at an easily accessible place.
hmm, I'm not very fond of wiki, (even if I was) at least for kipi,
If you want to contribute in adding pages for kipi you can contact us
in kde-imaging mailing list and Valerio will tell you how to.
The wiki needs to be checked a lot to avoid spamming, not wanted pages
and has a very anarchic hierarchy, if let to users....

>
> Best, Arnd
>
> P.S.: Gilles and all the many people behind digikam+kipi:
>       **many** thanks for this great software!!!

Thanks,
        Angelo (kipi-plugins)

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[Arnd Baecker]

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Daniel Bauer wrote:

> On Wednesday 20 December 2006 09:52, Arnd Baecker wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > would it be possible (and of interest)
> > to set up a wiki for digikam related issues?
> >
> > For example Gilles had a very nice and helpful reply to Daniel Bauers
> > questions on color management - it would be nice to conserve this
> > (and update if necessary) at an easily accessible place.
> >
> > Best, Arnd
> >
> > P.S.: Gilles and all the many people behind digikam+kipi:
> >       **many** thanks for this great software!!!
>
>            ^^^ I assent to this statement :-)
>
> While I agree that conserving good explanations is a good idea, I think...
>
> - if a Wiki, I guess access must be restricted to some who know what they are
> doing and what they say. If it will be like Wikipedia, where everybody can
> put in its opinion, it will be just as useless. I've read so much s**t in
> Wikipedia, that I can imagine such a Wiki would soon have a lot of crap in
> it.

Yes, this does happen with wikis ... ;-)
On the other hand a wiki lives from the contributions of many...

> - somebody would have to be the "manager", so that data is consistent and can
> be found with useful indexes/links. The manager would also have to avoid that
> the Wiki gets a place of discussion. To my eyes this is quite a lot of
> work...

Somehow it would be nice to keep the adminstrative workload
small, and possibly distributed on a couple of knowledgeable persons ;-)

> - As a suggestion: proposed entries for the wiki could be sent to the
> Digikam-users mailing list, discussed/corrected/ameliorated there, and
> then "the manager" places it on the Wiki (or not).

Something which worked quite nice with www.scipy.org is
to have users to edit their own space, to test out ideas etc.
and if things are considered to be matured (e.g. with discussion
on the mailing list) they can be moved to a more prominent place.

Though I am not 100% sure about the manager role, I absolutely
agree that a wiki does not replace discussions on the mailing list!

> - The Wiki could then replace the FAQ's (they'd be moved to the Wiki). But it
> could also be vice versa...

That might be an option, but let's first see if a wiki works out ...

Best,

Arnd
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Wednesday 20 December 2006 10:59, Arnd Baecker wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Daniel Bauer wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 December 2006 09:52, Arnd Baecker wrote:
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > would it be possible (and of interest)
> > > to set up a wiki for digikam related issues?
> > >
> > > For example Gilles had a very nice and helpful reply to Daniel Bauers
> > > questions on color management - it would be nice to conserve this
> > > (and update if necessary) at an easily accessible place.
> > >
> > > Best, Arnd
> > >
> > > P.S.: Gilles and all the many people behind digikam+kipi:
> > >       **many** thanks for this great software!!!
> >
> >            ^^^ I assent to this statement :-)
> >
> > While I agree that conserving good explanations is a good idea, I
> > think...
> >
> > - if a Wiki, I guess access must be restricted to some who know what they
> > are doing and what they say. If it will be like Wikipedia, where
> > everybody can put in its opinion, it will be just as useless. I've read
> > so much s**t in Wikipedia, that I can imagine such a Wiki would soon have
> > a lot of crap in it.
>
> Yes, this does happen with wikis ... ;-)
> On the other hand a wiki lives from the contributions of many...
>
> > - somebody would have to be the "manager", so that data is consistent and
> > can be found with useful indexes/links. The manager would also have to
> > avoid that the Wiki gets a place of discussion. To my eyes this is quite
> > a lot of work...
>
> Somehow it would be nice to keep the adminstrative workload
> small, and possibly distributed on a couple of knowledgeable persons ;-)
>
> > - As a suggestion: proposed entries for the wiki could be sent to the
> > Digikam-users mailing list, discussed/corrected/ameliorated there, and
> > then "the manager" places it on the Wiki (or not).
>
> Something which worked quite nice with www.scipy.org is
> to have users to edit their own space, to test out ideas etc.
> and if things are considered to be matured (e.g. with discussion
> on the mailing list) they can be moved to a more prominent place.
>
> Though I am not 100% sure about the manager role, I absolutely
> agree that a wiki does not replace discussions on the mailing list!

But i'm sure than i can't be the manager for a wiki. No more free time for
that (:=)))...

Gilles
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>
> - somebody would have to be the "manager", so that data is consistent

While I agree with some of Daniel resentments toward Wikipedia this is not good solution. Wiki is great success because is is partially selfmanageable. There is many sh* but also many good articles.

"Manager" position (in one person) would be very hard work. Better solution would be group of "trusted users" to share workload.

m.

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[Fabien-5]

Mikołaj Machowski wrote:
>>- somebody would have to be the "manager", so that data is consistent
>
>
> While I agree with some of Daniel resentments toward Wikipedia this is not good solution. Wiki is great success because is is partially selfmanageable. There is many sh* but also many good articles.
>
> "Manager" position (in one person) would be very hard work. Better solution would be group of "trusted users" to share workload.
>

Like there's no consensus about the wiki, this is what I propose :

People who want to contribute to some articles/pages about digikam will
use the KDE wiki :
http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Digikam

When a page is ok, we will add its content inside the digikam website.

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Wednesday 20 December 2006 13:24, Arnd Baecker wrote:
> On the technical side: do you think that you can
> for example easily set up a moin moin wiki
> (http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/) or
> maybe a mediawiki (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki)
> on digikam.org?

Fabien,

For this point, i recommend you to ask to Tom Albers witch host
www.digikam.org if it's possible without a risk to do it on the current
website...

Gilles
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[Fabien-5]

Gilles Caulier wrote:

> On Wednesday 20 December 2006 13:24, Arnd Baecker wrote:
>
>>On the technical side: do you think that you can
>>for example easily set up a moin moin wiki
>>(http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/) or
>>maybe a mediawiki (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki)
>>on digikam.org?
>
> Fabien,
>
> For this point, i recommend you to ask to Tom Albers witch host
> www.digikam.org if it's possible without a risk to do it on the current
> website...

Ok, I just sent him an email (you are in CC).

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[Fabien-5]

Hi,

Arnd Baecker wrote:

>>
>>Like there's no consensus about the wiki,
>
>
> I think that this conclusion comes too early, we are still
> in the phase of discussing things.
>
> From my previous experiences with another wiki I think the
> following points are important:
> - any user who wants to correct typos/add stuff/make changes etc.
>   should be allowed to do so.
>   (it is a wiki, so any changes can be rolled back and
>    in case user is really doing crap, we could exclude him.)

I agree.

> - To avoid spam: For the logins we might use the mailing list.
I'm not sure we could do that easily, but why not if possible.

> - policy: new material is first put into a users page
>   (still editable by others) and only after discussion/approval
>   moved to the main part.
>   Of course new stuff could also emerge from a discussion
>   on the mailing list and then directly go onto the main page.
> - managers group: people in this group may add/exclude
>   users and roll back changes (if necessary).

It may be a bit restrictive...

 > [...]
>
> So why not try it out and see how it develops.
> If in a years time it is just crap one can just pick the
> good stuff and close the wiki.

Yes, this is why I think we could first use the KDE wiki. If there's
activity and interesting contributions, then we could move the wiki
inside the digikam's website (if it's possible to host it there).

> Apart from my previous objection wrt the changelog,
> we could of course use this.
> What I don't like are the many irrelevant links
> (at least from a digikam centric point of view)
> on the left hand side.
>
>
>>When a page is ok, we will add its content inside the digikam website.
>
>
> To me this approach seems too complicated. In particular,
> there will always be pages which might need an update
> from time to time ...

That's not false, but what I often see is projects/websites that have
duplicate informations or missing informations on one side (wiki or
website). It's always a bit confusing when you have to look for
informations for the same thing at 2 different places...

If it's clearly separated, it's fine. Otherwise, it could be better to
integrate new contents directly inside the website (new FAQ entries,
etc...).

> On the technical side: do you think that you can
> for example easily set up a moin moin wiki
> (http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/) or
This one requires python, I'm not sure it would be possible.

> maybe a mediawiki (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki)
> on digikam.org?
I would prefer more simple and lightweight wiki engines like dokuwiki or
pmwiki.

Anyway, I'd still propose to start first with the KDE wiki and to see a
bit later if it's really useful to have our own wiki.

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[Arnd Baecker]

Hi,

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Fabien wrote:

[...]

> Yes, this is why I think we could first use the KDE wiki. If there's
> activity and interesting contributions, then we could move the wiki
> inside the digikam's website (if it's possible to host it there).
>
> > Apart from my previous objection wrt the changelog,
> > we could of course use this.
> > What I don't like are the many irrelevant links
> > (at least from a digikam centric point of view)
> > on the left hand side.
> >
> >>When a page is ok, we will add its content inside the digikam website.
> >
> > To me this approach seems too complicated. In particular,
> > there will always be pages which might need an update
> > from time to time ...
>
> That's not false, but what I often see is projects/websites that have
> duplicate informations or missing informations on one side (wiki or
> website). It's always a bit confusing when you have to look for
> informations for the same thing at 2 different places...
>
> If it's clearly separated, it's fine. Otherwise, it could be better to
> integrate new contents directly inside the website (new FAQ entries,
> etc...).

I agree.

> Anyway, I'd still propose to start first with the KDE wiki and to see a
> bit later if it's really useful to have our own wiki.

Alright, why not give that a try.

Still, we should discuss the organization a little bit:
Personal sub-pages presumably do not make sense there
(which otherwise would be a good place for new pages).
Therefore new stuff should go into a sub-area ("UnderConstruction").

So an organization could look like

- Main page
  - ...
  - DataBase
    - Script examples
  - Links
  - UnderConstruction
    - GPS devices
    - ColorManagement
    - ...

If things look polished enough, one could move them
from UnderConstruction into the top level.

One important point is to encourage users to contribute
in an easy manner with their knowledge and experience.
And yes, to avoid duplication, if things then get moved onto
the main digikam pages or the digikam handook, even better!

Best, Arnd
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> One important point is to encourage users to contribute
> in an easy manner with their knowledge and experience.
> And yes, to avoid duplication, if things then get moved onto
> the main digikam pages or the digikam handook, even better!
So, why not to encourage them to contribute in a standard way?

Just my 2 €cents

Angelo

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[Arnd Baecker]

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, Angelo Naselli wrote:
[...]
> > One important point is to encourage users to contribute
> > in an easy manner with their knowledge and experience.
> > And yes, to avoid duplication, if things then get moved onto
> > the main digikam pages or the digikam handook, even better!
> So, why not to encourage them to contribute in a standard way?

Encouraging people is always good ;-)
But to be sure: what is the standard way?
The contrib section http://www.digikam.org/?q=contrib
does explain a couple of options which do cover a lot,
but maybe not all.

To give a concrete example: I am thinking of buying a GPS
device. It turns out that this is not a trivial decision ;-) -
there are only few which have a data-logger.
Then there are various tests around comparing the accuracy etc. etc.
Setting up a small page which collects the most
interesting/reasonable/.... ones (Sony GPS-CS1, navigps/amaryllo
triptracker/wintec WBT ... ) might be helpful.

What would be a standard way to achieve this?

Best, Arnd
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Thursday 21 December 2006 15:02, Arnd Baecker wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, Angelo Naselli wrote:
> [...]
>
> > > One important point is to encourage users to contribute
> > > in an easy manner with their knowledge and experience.
> > > And yes, to avoid duplication, if things then get moved onto
> > > the main digikam pages or the digikam handook, even better!
> >
> > So, why not to encourage them to contribute in a standard way?
>
> Encouraging people is always good ;-)
> But to be sure: what is the standard way?
> The contrib section http://www.digikam.org/?q=contrib
> does explain a couple of options which do cover a lot,
> but maybe not all.
>
> To give a concrete example: I am thinking of buying a GPS
> device. It turns out that this is not a trivial decision ;-) -
> there are only few which have a data-logger.
> Then there are various tests around comparing the accuracy etc. etc.
> Setting up a small page which collects the most
> interesting/reasonable/.... ones (Sony GPS-CS1, navigps/amaryllo
> triptracker/wintec WBT ... ) might be helpful.
>
> What would be a standard way to achieve this?

Totally agree!

I will love to see all digiKam & co handbook written progressivly like a wiki
by all users...

Handbooks are written in docbook language witch is not really difficult to
understand but not really user friendly.

How to interface handbook and wiki ? Just waiting than dedicaced wiki section
are written by users and convert these parts manually in docbook ?

Gilles
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Alle 15:02, giovedì 21 dicembre 2006, Arnd Baecker ha scritto:

> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, Angelo Naselli wrote:
> [...]
> > > One important point is to encourage users to contribute
> > > in an easy manner with their knowledge and experience.
> > > And yes, to avoid duplication, if things then get moved onto
> > > the main digikam pages or the digikam handook, even better!
> > So, why not to encourage them to contribute in a standard way?
>
> Encouraging people is always good ;-)
> But to be sure: what is the standard way?
> The contrib section http://www.digikam.org/?q=contrib
> does explain a couple of options which do cover a lot,
> but maybe not all.
>
> To give a concrete example: I am thinking of buying a GPS
> device. It turns out that this is not a trivial decision ;-) -
> there are only few which have a data-logger.
> Then there are various tests around comparing the accuracy etc. etc.
> Setting up a small page which collects the most
> interesting/reasonable/.... ones (Sony GPS-CS1, navigps/amaryllo
> triptracker/wintec WBT ... ) might be helpful.
>
> What would be a standard way to achieve this?

IMO, the standard way would be to subscribe to mailing list, ask for

a web (changer/user or whatelse) account and contribute in
documenting as we can do using a wiki, but sure that who wants to help
can see it work without spam or sure that there's (hopefully) no need
to check every minute someone has added "not conventional" pages,
let's say "OT".

I'm not against wiki, I really love it if used by users really involved.
But in my experience, in our lug, we had to remove a lot of "spammed" pages
and to roll back other ones. And note that no one but subscribed people can
work on our wiki.

If you believe in digikam (I'm quite sure kipi-plugins can't) has someone who
can maintain that, go on. And if someone wants to add kipi & co. info as well,
great. In such a case I hope someone can add (or link) that info into kipi site.

I'd like only to say be careful...

Angelo

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