[Digikam-devel] JPEG2000 support...

[Gilles Caulier-2]

Hi all,

Yesterday, i have playing with libjasper API :

http://www.ece.uvic.ca/~mdadams/jasper

... into digiKam core to add support of JPEG2000 file format :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000

There is a patch against svn to add a new JPEG2000 image loader :

http://digikam3rdparty.free.fr/misc.tarballs/jpeg2000.patch

You need to have libjasper developement package installed on your computer. In
all case, this patch will be applied later than digiKam 0.9.0 final release.

Against JPEG, JPEG2000 features are :

- 16 bits color depth (JPEG : 8 bits only)
- Alpha channel support (JPEG no)
- LossLess compression availalble (JPEG no)
- Better compression ratio than JPEG, especially with high compression.
- Better image quality than JPEG, especially with high compression.

There are some comparaison web sites available, for example this one :

http://www.geocities.com/ee00224/btp2.html

JPEG 2000 support EXIF and XMP metadata. I hope than JPEG2000 can be added to
the picture file format supported by Exiv2 library.

Andreas, can you give me your viewpoint about it ?

Gilles Caulier

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[Fabien-5]

Hi,

Gilles Caulier wrote:

> Yesterday, i have playing with libjasper API :
>
> http://www.ece.uvic.ca/~mdadams/jasper
>
> ... into digiKam core to add support of JPEG2000 file format :
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000
>
> There is a patch against svn to add a new JPEG2000 image loader :
>
> http://digikam3rdparty.free.fr/misc.tarballs/jpeg2000.patch
>
> You need to have libjasper developement package installed on your computer. In
> all case, this patch will be applied later than digiKam 0.9.0 final release.
>
> Against JPEG, JPEG2000 features are :
>
> - 16 bits color depth (JPEG : 8 bits only)
> - Alpha channel support (JPEG no)
> - LossLess compression availalble (JPEG no)
> - Better compression ratio than JPEG, especially with high compression.
> - Better image quality than JPEG, especially with high compression.

Hm, great!
Is there any digital camera with native jpeg2000 support ?

BTW, this make me think we don't have the list of supported formats on
the website.

I found this :
http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/graphics/digikam/libs/dimg/loaders/README?view=markup

Is it up to date ?

--
Fabien

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Wednesday 29 November 2006 12:47, Fabien wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Gilles Caulier wrote:
> > Yesterday, i have playing with libjasper API :
> >
> > http://www.ece.uvic.ca/~mdadams/jasper
> >
> > ... into digiKam core to add support of JPEG2000 file format :
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000
> >
> > There is a patch against svn to add a new JPEG2000 image loader :
> >
> > http://digikam3rdparty.free.fr/misc.tarballs/jpeg2000.patch
> >
> > You need to have libjasper developement package installed on your
> > computer. In all case, this patch will be applied later than digiKam
> > 0.9.0 final release.
> >
> > Against JPEG, JPEG2000 features are :
> >
> > - 16 bits color depth (JPEG : 8 bits only)
> > - Alpha channel support (JPEG no)
> > - LossLess compression availalble (JPEG no)
> > - Better compression ratio than JPEG, especially with high compression.
> > - Better image quality than JPEG, especially with high compression.
>
> Hm, great!
> Is there any digital camera with native jpeg2000 support ?
>
> BTW, this make me think we don't have the list of supported formats on
> the website.
>
> I found this :
> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/graphics/digikam/libs/dimg/loaders/RE
>ADME?view=markup
>
> Is it up to date ?

yes it is.

But about JPEG2000 loading using KDE ImageIO interface, the resulting image is
only in 8 bits color depth, forced sRGB color space. the save method don't
work under KDE 3.5.

With my patch, digiKam can load _and_ save 16 bits images in JPEG2000 (:=)))

Gilles

>
> --
> Fabien
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-devel
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On Wednesday 29 November 2006 19:12, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> JPEG 2000 support EXIF and XMP metadata. I hope than JPEG2000 can be
> added to the picture file format supported by Exiv2 library.
>
> Andreas, can you give me your viewpoint about it ?

Quick answer, this should be just another Image subclass. Depending on
how different the file format is from what we already have, it will
take more or less effort to implement. (Did a brief search but couldn't
find a good description of the format, most sites talk about the image
data compression, which Exiv2 would simply skip).

-ahu.
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Friday 01 December 2006 04:09, Andreas Huggel wrote:

> On Wednesday 29 November 2006 19:12, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> > JPEG 2000 support EXIF and XMP metadata. I hope than JPEG2000 can be
> > added to the picture file format supported by Exiv2 library.
> >
> > Andreas, can you give me your viewpoint about it ?
>
> Quick answer, this should be just another Image subclass. Depending on
> how different the file format is from what we already have, it will
> take more or less effort to implement. (Did a brief search but couldn't
> find a good description of the format, most sites talk about the image
> data compression, which Exiv2 would simply skip).
>
> -ahu.

Just my investiguations : look in recent Exiftool source code, it support Exif
extraction from JPEG 2000.

Also, i'm looking to support in native PSD file format in digiKam (photoshop)
witch support EXIF, IPTC and XMP. This one is very used by photograph, and
i'm sure that it will be very important to give an Exiv2 support it in the
future. Your viewpoint ?

Gilles
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Wednesday 29 November 2006 12:47, Fabien wrote:
> Hm, great!
> Is there any digital camera with native jpeg2000 support ?

I think no. Perhaps in the future.. To have take a look into Jasper source
code, i have seen that encoding algorithm require a lots of CPU ressources.
In fact more than JPEG.

I suspect 2 problems with JPEG 2000 algorithm :

- it require high CPU speed.
- The gain with low compression ratio is not sugnifiant than JPEG

This is why camera do not use it actually. Perhaps in the future the embeded
CPU used in DSC will be more powerfull for that.

It more easy by maker to implement a fast JPEG encoder or a RAW file format
(witch is uncompressed). First use in 8 bits color depth, second 16 bits.

Gilles
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On Friday 01 December 2006 14:28, Gilles Caulier wrote:
> Also, i'm looking to support in native PSD file format in digiKam
> (photoshop) witch support EXIF, IPTC and XMP. This one is very used
> by photograph, and i'm sure that it will be very important to give an
> Exiv2 support it in the future. Your viewpoint ?
>
Yes, I think PSD format should have higher priority.
-ahu.
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[Hubert Figuiere-3]

Gilles Caulier wrote:

> On Wednesday 29 November 2006 12:47, Fabien wrote:
>> Hm, great!
>> Is there any digital camera with native jpeg2000 support ?
>
> I think no. Perhaps in the future.. To have take a look into Jasper source
> code, i have seen that encoding algorithm require a lots of CPU ressources.
> In fact more than JPEG.
>
> I suspect 2 problems with JPEG 2000 algorithm :
>
> - it require high CPU speed.
> - The gain with low compression ratio is not sugnifiant than JPEG
>
> This is why camera do not use it actually. Perhaps in the future the embeded
> CPU used in DSC will be more powerfull for that.

You also forget that JPEG2000 is known to be patent encumbered, unlike JPEG.


Hub
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Friday 01 December 2006 15:52, Hubert Figuiere wrote:

> Gilles Caulier wrote:
> > On Wednesday 29 November 2006 12:47, Fabien wrote:
> >> Hm, great!
> >> Is there any digital camera with native jpeg2000 support ?
> >
> > I think no. Perhaps in the future.. To have take a look into Jasper
> > source code, i have seen that encoding algorithm require a lots of CPU
> > ressources. In fact more than JPEG.
> >
> > I suspect 2 problems with JPEG 2000 algorithm :
> >
> > - it require high CPU speed.
> > - The gain with low compression ratio is not sugnifiant than JPEG
> >
> > This is why camera do not use it actually. Perhaps in the future the
> > embeded CPU used in DSC will be more powerfull for that.
>
> You also forget that JPEG2000 is known to be patent encumbered, unlike
> JPEG.

Right. But how Jasper project drive patent issues. This library is distributed
under MIT license. Duing JPEG2000 patents, there is a risk to use this
library in a GPL project like digiKam ?

There is also an alternative to Jasper distributed under BSD license :
http://www.openjpeg.org

Gilles
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[Hubert Figuiere-3]

Gilles Caulier wrote:

> Right. But how Jasper project drive patent issues. This library is distributed
> under MIT license. Duing JPEG2000 patents, there is a risk to use this
> library in a GPL project like digiKam ?

Much like ffmpeg and other libraries deal with patents for video
decoding and encoding, and mp3.
But a camera manufacturer will surely get sued for patent infringement.
So that's an added cost, the patent license.


Hub
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[Rex Dieter]

Hubert Figuiere wrote:

> You also forget that JPEG2000 is known to be patent encumbered, unlike
> JPEG.

References?

-- Rex

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[Hubert Figuiere-3]

Rex Dieter wrote:
> Hubert Figuiere wrote:
>
>> You also forget that JPEG2000 is known to be patent encumbered, unlike
>> JPEG.
>
> References?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000#Legal_issues


I should have written "known to be *potentially* patent encumbered"

and as usual "better safe than sorry". That will probably be the
statement of most corporate lawyer that would give advice.


Hub
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[Gerhard Kulzer]

Am Mittwoch, 29. November 2006 12:12 schrieb Gilles Caulier:

> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday, i have playing with libjasper API :
>
> http://www.ece.uvic.ca/~mdadams/jasper
>
> ... into digiKam core to add support of JPEG2000 file format :
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000
>
> There is a patch against svn to add a new JPEG2000 image loader :
>
> http://digikam3rdparty.free.fr/misc.tarballs/jpeg2000.patch
>
> You need to have libjasper developement package installed on your computer.
> In all case, this patch will be applied later than digiKam 0.9.0 final
> release.
>
> Against JPEG, JPEG2000 features are :
>
> - 16 bits color depth (JPEG : 8 bits only)
> - Alpha channel support (JPEG no)
> - LossLess compression availalble (JPEG no)
> - Better compression ratio than JPEG, especially with high compression.
> - Better image quality than JPEG, especially with high compression.
>
> There are some comparaison web sites available, for example this one :
>
> http://www.geocities.com/ee00224/btp2.html
>
> JPEG 2000 support EXIF and XMP metadata. I hope than JPEG2000 can be added
> to the picture file format supported by Exiv2 library.
>
> Andreas, can you give me your viewpoint about it ?
>
> Gilles Caulier
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-devel

Just found another article on JPEG2000 comparison:
http://www.photozone.de/7Digital/jpeg2000.htm

Gerhard

--
http://www.gerhard.fr
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le lundi 18 décembre 2006 20:30, Gerhard Kulzer a écrit :

> Am Mittwoch, 29. November 2006 12:12 schrieb Gilles Caulier:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Yesterday, i have playing with libjasper API :
> >
> > http://www.ece.uvic.ca/~mdadams/jasper
> >
> > ... into digiKam core to add support of JPEG2000 file format :
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000
> >
> > There is a patch against svn to add a new JPEG2000 image loader :
> >
> > http://digikam3rdparty.free.fr/misc.tarballs/jpeg2000.patch
> >
> > You need to have libjasper developement package installed on your
> > computer. In all case, this patch will be applied later than digiKam
> > 0.9.0 final release.
> >
> > Against JPEG, JPEG2000 features are :
> >
> > - 16 bits color depth (JPEG : 8 bits only)
> > - Alpha channel support (JPEG no)
> > - LossLess compression availalble (JPEG no)
> > - Better compression ratio than JPEG, especially with high compression.
> > - Better image quality than JPEG, especially with high compression.
> >
> > There are some comparaison web sites available, for example this one :
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/ee00224/btp2.html
> >
> > JPEG 2000 support EXIF and XMP metadata. I hope than JPEG2000 can be
> > added to the picture file format supported by Exiv2 library.
> >
> > Andreas, can you give me your viewpoint about it ?
> >
> > Gilles Caulier
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digikam-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-devel
>
> Just found another article on JPEG2000 comparison:
> http://www.photozone.de/7Digital/jpeg2000.htm

Thanks for the url. Very instructive.

Tomorrow, i will polish my JPEG2000 support patch and commit it to svn, like
this you can play with it during hollidays...

Gilles
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