Digikam and KPhotoAlbum

[Michael Gerdau]

Hi list !

I've recently starting trying digital photographie after long years
of using analog equipment (which I still do for various reasons).

I quickly came across KPhotoAlbum and started using it. Shortly after
that I came across digikam and gave that a try too.

When comparing these two (solely for my personal usecase) I can
sum up the difference as follows:
- digikam is more feature complete than KPhotoAlbum, especially
  when it comes to manipulating, color space etc.
  As you all are digikam users I won't go into details. On a
  KPhotoAlbum list this would become a lengthy paragraph ;-)
- KPhotoAlbum sports two features I really like and would want
  to see in digikam:
  a) KPhotoAlbum has a very convenient way of creating collections
     of my images. You can assign keywords, persons, locations etc.
     to pictures (something like a hierarchical structure though not
     completely user defineable). Each such keyword (person/location/etc.)
     does create something like a "dynamic" album. Each image thus
     belongs to several "dynamic" albums (basically reflecting the
     hierarchical structure made up by the keywords etc).
     That implies that by proper tagging one can very conveniently
     add/remove pictures to albums thereby creating lots of different
     groupings of my images.
     I don't know whether the same would be possible in digikam but
     if so it is at least not as intuitive (I won't argue about ease
     of use as I not even how it could be done at all).
  b) When showing the pictures the attached comment as well the
     keywords etc. do appear in a small textbox on the picture as well.
     I do like that feature very much and have not found something
     like that in digikam.
     If it's not there I'd expect it to be easily implemented and of
     course the box as well as all content should be configureable :-)
  c) Last not least I do like the timeline view/statistics of my images
     as can be seen in KPhotoAlbum. Basically date and time is just
     another "keyword" and thus this should possibly have been mentioned
     under a) above. But I just now remembered it...

Not sure if I made myself clear. I'm happy to elaborate more if
required.

Best wishes,
Michael

PS: I'm happy to add feature wish(es) if required.
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[Colin Guthrie-6]

Hi Michael,

Michael Gerdau wrote:

>   a) KPhotoAlbum has a very convenient way of creating collections
>      of my images. You can assign keywords, persons, locations etc.
>      to pictures (something like a hierarchical structure though not
>      completely user defineable). Each such keyword (person/location/etc.)
>      does create something like a "dynamic" album. Each image thus
>      belongs to several "dynamic" albums (basically reflecting the
>      hierarchical structure made up by the keywords etc).
>      That implies that by proper tagging one can very conveniently
>      add/remove pictures to albums thereby creating lots of different
>      groupings of my images.
>      I don't know whether the same would be possible in digikam but
>      if so it is at least not as intuitive (I won't argue about ease
>      of use as I not even how it could be done at all).

Exactly what you describe is already in Digikam - It's called "Tags" You
can assign multiple tags (e.g. places, people etc.) to each image and
you are then able to quickly view your images by tag. It works pretty
much exactly how you want. The concept of "Ablums" as a physical
location still exists but you could almost complete hide this is you
want to use tags as your primary UI.


>   b) When showing the pictures the attached comment as well the
>      keywords etc. do appear in a small textbox on the picture as well.
>      I do like that feature very much and have not found something
>      like that in digikam.
>      If it's not there I'd expect it to be easily implemented and of
>      course the box as well as all content should be configureable :-)

Well Digikam has more of an "Image Editor" than an "Image Viewer", so
this info isn't displayed by default. What you can do is display the
comments sidebar when viewing the thumbnails inside the Digikam manager.
Not ideal I agree. Others who know better may be able to tell you how to
adjust the image editor to display the comments properly.

>   c) Last not least I do like the timeline view/statistics of my images
>      as can be seen in KPhotoAlbum. Basically date and time is just
>      another "keyword" and thus this should possibly have been mentioned
>      under a) above. But I just now remembered it...

You can view by date easily in Digikam too. Just like Tags, there is a
Dates sidebar. :) Look along the left hand side and you'll see Albums,
Dates, Tags, Searches. :D

Hope this helps

Col.

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[Michael Gerdau]

> >   a) KPhotoAlbum has a very convenient way of creating collections

> >      of my images. You can assign keywords, persons, locations etc.
> >      to pictures (something like a hierarchical structure though not
> >      completely user defineable). Each such keyword (person/location/etc.)
> >      does create something like a "dynamic" album. Each image thus
> >      belongs to several "dynamic" albums (basically reflecting the
> >      hierarchical structure made up by the keywords etc).
> >      That implies that by proper tagging one can very conveniently
> >      add/remove pictures to albums thereby creating lots of different
> >      groupings of my images.
> >      I don't know whether the same would be possible in digikam but
> >      if so it is at least not as intuitive (I won't argue about ease
> >      of use as I not even how it could be done at all).
>
> Exactly what you describe is already in Digikam - It's called "Tags" You
> can assign multiple tags (e.g. places, people etc.) to each image and
> you are then able to quickly view your images by tag. It works pretty
> much exactly how you want.

I'm aware I can assign tags to images.
What IMO KPhotoAlbum has and I want in digikam is a hierarchie of tags.

Sorry for not having been clearer before.

> The concept of "Ablums" as a physical
> location still exists but you could almost complete hide this is you
> want to use tags as your primary UI.

Ok, after having read this remark and trying to find it I now see
that it was just me being stupid.

So all I'm missing now is the concept of a tag hierarchie.

> >   b) When showing the pictures the attached comment as well the
> >      keywords etc. do appear in a small textbox on the picture as well.
> >      I do like that feature very much and have not found something
> >      like that in digikam.
> >      If it's not there I'd expect it to be easily implemented and of
> >      course the box as well as all content should be configureable :-)
>
> Well Digikam has more of an "Image Editor" than an "Image Viewer", so
> this info isn't displayed by default. What you can do is display the
> comments sidebar when viewing the thumbnails inside the Digikam manager.

I want it displayed during a slideshow... :)

> Not ideal I agree.

Yep.

> Others who know better may be able to tell you how to
> adjust the image editor to display the comments properly.

Again I apoligize for not having made myself clearer:
I don't need it in the image editor, I want it during a slideshow,
i.e. when showing a series of pictures to friends, via beamer or
whatever.

And while I'm at that:
being able to connect audio files to images and play them during a
slideshow would be a perfect addition.

> You can view by date easily in Digikam too. Just like Tags, there is a
> Dates sidebar. :) Look along the left hand side and you'll see Albums,
> Dates, Tags, Searches. :D

Found that too (again me being stupid). Sorry for the noise.

> Hope this helps

It did, thank you very much.

Best wishes,
Michael
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Friday 22 December 2006 12:24, Michael Gerdau wrote:
> I want it displayed during a slideshow...

Displaying Comments during slideshow is implemented in SlideShow kipi-plugins
form svn trunk (not sure is this feature have been add into 0.1.3-beta1),
witch is availalble in Album GUI (and KPhotoAlbum too). In digiKam Editor,
it's not yet.

To be honest, I'm not satistied by SlideShow from image editor (witch is a
different implementation than kipi-plugin). Since we have a new maintener for
SlideShow kipi-plugin, i'm favorable to use only this plugin everywhere...

Marcel, if you read these words, please give me your viewpoint...

Gilles
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???

Digikam has hierarchical tags. You can create subtags and subsubtags, etc.

BTW - that was something which I didn't like in KPA, there was no way to clerly see hierarchy of tags.

m.

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[Gerhard Kulzer]

Am Freitag, 22. Dezember 2006 12:24 schrieb Michael Gerdau:

> > The concept of "Ablums" as a physical
> > location still exists but you could almost complete hide this is you
> > want to use tags as your primary UI.
>
> Ok, after having read this remark and trying to find it I now see
> that it was just me being stupid.
>
> So all I'm missing now is the concept of a tag hierarchie.
>
No you don't miss it, digiKam tags are hierarchical. When using the left tag
sidebar, just right-click on a tag and add another one. It will become a
subtag.

Gerhard

> Best wishes,
> Michael

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[Stephan Olbrich]

On Friday 22 December 2006 10:52, Colin Guthrie wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Michael Gerdau wrote:
> >   a) KPhotoAlbum has a very convenient way of creating collections
> >      of my images. You can assign keywords, persons, locations etc.
> >      to pictures (something like a hierarchical structure though not
> >      completely user defineable). Each such keyword
> > (person/location/etc.) does create something like a "dynamic" album. Each
> > image thus belongs to several "dynamic" albums (basically reflecting the
> > hierarchical structure made up by the keywords etc).
> >      That implies that by proper tagging one can very conveniently
> >      add/remove pictures to albums thereby creating lots of different
> >      groupings of my images.
> >      I don't know whether the same would be possible in digikam but
> >      if so it is at least not as intuitive (I won't argue about ease
> >      of use as I not even how it could be done at all).
>
> Exactly what you describe is already in Digikam - It's called "Tags" You
> can assign multiple tags (e.g. places, people etc.) to each image and
> you are then able to quickly view your images by tag. It works pretty
> much exactly how you want. The concept of "Ablums" as a physical
> location still exists but you could almost complete hide this is you
> want to use tags as your primary UI.

The problem I have with that, is that then you still have the pictures from
one album grouped together in the tag-view. So you can't mix them, e.g. by
sorting them by date.

Stephan
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[Michael Gerdau]

Hi list !

Thanks to all that responded to my earlier mails and helped me
understand digikam a little better.

Meanwhile I played with it a bit more and have come across these:
- I would like to be able to move tags in my tag hierarchie. Of
  course I could create them new at the desired position but then
  I would have to retag all images involved (which could be a PITA
  as long as tagging multiple images at once is not supported)

  Is moving tags possible and how ?

- while adding some more pictures to the collection I renamed some
  of the albums (directories) inside the filesystem (as a result of
  revising my naming scheme).
  As a consequence I lost tags and scores for almost all images
  involved. Only very few images kept their tags but I have not
  yet understood why.

  Is there a way to keep tags and scores (etc.) when renaming
  directories and how ?

Thank you, best wishes,
Michael
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[Arnd Baecker]

Hi Michael,

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Michael Gerdau wrote:

> Hi list !
>
> Thanks to all that responded to my earlier mails and helped me
> understand digikam a little better.
>
> Meanwhile I played with it a bit more and have come across these:
> - I would like to be able to move tags in my tag hierarchie. Of
>   course I could create them new at the desired position but then
>   I would have to retag all images involved (which could be a PITA
>   as long as tagging multiple images at once is not supported)
>
>   Is moving tags possible and how ?

yes - just move them with the mouse ;-)
(Only for the tag-filters view this does not seem to work,
at least with a svn check-out of 2-3 days ago).

> - while adding some more pictures to the collection I renamed some
>   of the albums (directories) inside the filesystem (as a result of
>   revising my naming scheme).
>   As a consequence I lost tags and scores for almost all images
>   involved. Only very few images kept their tags but I have not
>   yet understood why.
>
>   Is there a way to keep tags and scores (etc.) when renaming
>   directories and how ?

You will have to move directories from within digikam.
Otherwise digikam will (on restart) remove the pictures, which are
not present anymore, from its database and add the
the pictures from the new directory to its database.
As long as the tags/ratings etc. are not stored within the pictures
themselves you will loose that information.
((So storing in the IPTC tags should work, but I have not
tested this myself)).

Hope this helps,

Arnd
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[Gerhard Kulzer]

Am Freitag, 22. Dezember 2006 16:05 schrieb Stephan Olbrich:

> On Friday 22 December 2006 10:52, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > Michael Gerdau wrote:
> > >   a) KPhotoAlbum has a very convenient way of creating collections
> > >      of my images. You can assign keywords, persons, locations etc.
> > >      to pictures (something like a hierarchical structure though not
> > >      completely user defineable). Each such keyword
> > > (person/location/etc.) does create something like a "dynamic" album.
> > > Each image thus belongs to several "dynamic" albums (basically
> > > reflecting the hierarchical structure made up by the keywords etc).
> > >      That implies that by proper tagging one can very conveniently
> > >      add/remove pictures to albums thereby creating lots of different
> > >      groupings of my images.
> > >      I don't know whether the same would be possible in digikam but
> > >      if so it is at least not as intuitive (I won't argue about ease
> > >      of use as I not even how it could be done at all).
> >
> > Exactly what you describe is already in Digikam - It's called "Tags" You
> > can assign multiple tags (e.g. places, people etc.) to each image and
> > you are then able to quickly view your images by tag. It works pretty
> > much exactly how you want. The concept of "Ablums" as a physical
> > location still exists but you could almost complete hide this is you
> > want to use tags as your primary UI.
>
> The problem I have with that, is that then you still have the pictures from
> one album grouped together in the tag-view. So you can't mix them, e.g. by
> sorting them by date.
>

Well in the past there was a long discussion about that, many users wanted
that feature of album separation and it was so implemented. Now there is a
wish in the TODO file to make it a users choice. Is short: wait and see.

Gerhard
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[Michael Gerdau]

[moving tags]
> >   Is moving tags possible and how ?
>
> yes - just move them with the mouse ;-)
> (Only for the tag-filters view this does not seem to work,
> at least with a svn check-out of 2-3 days ago).

I had tried to move it with the mouse in both the tagfilter page
and the page titled "Comments/Tags" (or however that is in english)
both on the right hand side of my digikam window.

In both these moving with the mouse does not work (using 0.9.0
from the openSuSE playground repository). Shall I file a bugreport ?

It does however work in taglist on the left hand side (however that
is named) of my digikam window where I tried it only now.

> >   Is there a way to keep tags and scores (etc.) when renaming
> >   directories and how ?
>
> You will have to move directories from within digikam.

Hmm.

In another recent mail in this forum I had read that one of the
advantages of digikam copying the images into it's own directories
is that one can use the OS's tools for dealing with files and
directories.

Apparently this involves some caveats.

From amarok I'm used to its ability to identify moved soundfiles.
Don't know how it does it (I'd assume a checksum on some parts of
the soundfile but that's guesswork).

Instead of just removing the entries from the database IMO digikam
should try to find them and thereby reestablish the link between
the tags and the image.

After all assigning tags, comments, scores etc. is a lot work
and just removing it (I'm barely omitting the word outright)
does not seem right.

Or in other words:
Removing a users work MUST NOT be done unless explicitly been
requested by the user. If it is somehow required for the proper
functioning of the software there should still be an explanation
as to what is happening and why and of course there should be
an option to not do it for now thus giving the user the option
to possibly undo whatever he did that made removing such info
a requirement.

Best wishes,
Michael
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[Duncan Hill-5]

Michael Gerdau wrote:
> Hi list !

> - while adding some more pictures to the collection I renamed some
>   of the albums (directories) inside the filesystem (as a result of
>   revising my naming scheme).
>   As a consequence I lost tags and scores for almost all images
>   involved. Only very few images kept their tags but I have not
>   yet understood why.

If the meta data was contained in the images, then it'd be reimported.

Manipulating the file system outside of digiKam isn't supported at the
moment, because you can't assume that a file that was at
~/Albums/path1/file.img
is now the one that's at
~/Albums/path2/file.img

without some kind of image-data (md5, haar algo) recording and
detection.  It's a long-standing BKO entry to provide some form of image
checksum detection and recording - I'm hoping to try implementing a
basic MD5 method as a proof of concept.  I do say hoping, as $dayjob is
8 hours of coding, and when I get in I'm not too inclined to muck in c++.
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