Color Management, various questions.

[Teudimundo]

Hi all,

I've a Minolta Dynax 5D, I shoot RAW and I'm trying to figure out which
is the best setting for my workflow using the 0.9.0 svn version.

I'm using the Minolta profile for the 5D as input profile, AdobeRGB as
Workspace and sRGB as monitor. The results that I get are really good,
and it really make things easier.

What I would like to understand is the function of the
"Use color managed view". If it is unchecked, what am I seeing on the
monitor?

Another problem is how should I behave to have pictures that I want to
store or send for printing as AdobeRGB, and pictures for the web (read
flickr) in sRGB.

The last problem that I have is that sometime I get pictures from a
Dimage z5, how can I change the input profile only for those pictures?
Or maybe I don't care because they are simply JPGs?

Would that be possible to have digikam choosing the right input profile
based on the EXIF data?

Thanks in advance.

--Tommaso
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Dimanche 14 Mai 2006 01:59 PM, Tommaso Schiavinotto a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> I've a Minolta Dynax 5D, I shoot RAW and I'm trying to figure out which
> is the best setting for my workflow using the 0.9.0 svn version.

Welcome. I'm using a Dynax 5D too. Nice camera !!!

>
> I'm using the Minolta profile for the 5D as input profile, AdobeRGB as
> Workspace and sRGB as monitor. The results that I get are really good,
> and it really make things easier.

Yes, i use too...

>
> What I would like to understand is the function of the
> "Use color managed view". If it is unchecked, what am I seeing on the
> monitor?

This option is only to render color using your monitor color profile to trying
to render properly all color in screen. It's not necessary to use it and
don't change anything in image data. It's just use to render image in editor
and image plugins preview. I have just commited changes in svn to increase
performance about this option...

>
> Another problem is how should I behave to have pictures that I want to
> store or send for printing as AdobeRGB, and pictures for the web (read
> flickr) in sRGB.
>
> The last problem that I have is that sometime I get pictures from a
> Dimage z5, how can I change the input profile only for those pictures?
> Or maybe I don't care because they are simply JPGs?
>

Paco, if you can give more informations here... Thanks in advance...

> Would that be possible to have digikam choosing the right input profile
> based on the EXIF data?

Well, yes, this is my plan later 0.9.0. It's not very complicated to do, but
require sustential changes in digiKam at startup to parse an ICC profile
repository. Note that UFRAW project have planed to do the same rules in the
future...

Gilles
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[Teudimundo]

Caulier Gilles wrote:
> Le Dimanche 14 Mai 2006 01:59 PM, Tommaso Schiavinotto a écrit :
>  
[...]

>> What I would like to understand is the function of the
>> "Use color managed view". If it is unchecked, what am I seeing on the
>> monitor?
>>    
>
> This option is only to render color using your monitor color profile to trying
> to render properly all color in screen. It's not necessary to use it and
> don't change anything in image data. It's just use to render image in editor
> and image plugins preview. I have just commited changes in svn to increase
> performance about this option...
>  

I had updated the source this morning (and update exiv2 too, I sent a
message on the group for a compilation problem) ...
Anyway it really it's too slow in my computer (just resizing the window
takes few 3/4 seconds, and it's quite annoying), I noticed the
difference in colors if I use it or not, and if I work on levels and
curves I would expect to work on "real" colors...

>> Another problem is how should I behave to have pictures that I want to
>> store or send for printing as AdobeRGB, and pictures for the web (read
>> flickr) in sRGB.
>>
>> The last problem that I have is that sometime I get pictures from a
>> Dimage z5, how can I change the input profile only for those pictures?
>> Or maybe I don't care because they are simply JPGs?
>>
>>    
>
> Paco, if you can give more informations here... Thanks in advance...
>  

I would really appreciate that... :) I think that digikam is almost
self-explanatory,
and it has really simplified things for the color management, but I'm
particularly dumb and
I've always failed to understand how to exploit the color-management in
the workflow...

>> Would that be possible to have digikam choosing the right input profile
>> based on the EXIF data?
>>    
>
> Well, yes, this is my plan later 0.9.0. It's not very complicated to do, but
> require sustential changes in digiKam at startup to parse an ICC profile
> repository. Note that UFRAW project have planed to do the same rules in the
> future...
>
>  

I followed the evolution of digikam from the 0.7.0 and the step that
you've done this time is really impressive.

Uhm... one more observation. On the info about the picture of Dynax 5D
it is possible to have the AF point. I can't find it
on the makernotes, while it would be nice to be visualised on the
picture as well (I suppose this can wait the
release 4.x.x :) )

--Tommaso
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[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Dimanche 14 Mai 2006 04:41 PM, Tommaso Schiavinotto a écrit :

> Caulier Gilles wrote:
> > Le Dimanche 14 Mai 2006 01:59 PM, Tommaso Schiavinotto a écrit :
>
> [...]
>
> >> What I would like to understand is the function of the
> >> "Use color managed view". If it is unchecked, what am I seeing on the
> >> monitor?
> >
> > This option is only to render color using your monitor color profile to
> > trying to render properly all color in screen. It's not necessary to use
> > it and don't change anything in image data. It's just use to render image
> > in editor and image plugins preview. I have just commited changes in svn
> > to increase performance about this option...
>
> I had updated the source this morning (and update exiv2 too, I sent a
> message on the group for a compilation problem) ...
> Anyway it really it's too slow in my computer (just resizing the window
> takes few 3/4 seconds, and it's quite annoying), I noticed the
> difference in colors if I use it or not, and if I work on levels and
> curves I would expect to work on "real" colors...

No. I have commited these change today at 3:00 PM paris hours.

>
> >> Another problem is how should I behave to have pictures that I want to
> >> store or send for printing as AdobeRGB, and pictures for the web (read
> >> flickr) in sRGB.
> >>
> >> The last problem that I have is that sometime I get pictures from a
> >> Dimage z5, how can I change the input profile only for those pictures?
> >> Or maybe I don't care because they are simply JPGs?
> >
> > Paco, if you can give more informations here... Thanks in advance...
>
> I would really appreciate that... :) I think that digikam is almost
> self-explanatory,
> and it has really simplified things for the color management, but I'm
> particularly dumb and
> I've always failed to understand how to exploit the color-management in
> the workflow...

Explanation will come with digiKam handbook. It's under updating by Gerhard
Kulzer on svn. Not yet complete... Can be long. All help welcome.

>
> >> Would that be possible to have digikam choosing the right input profile
> >> based on the EXIF data?
> >
> > Well, yes, this is my plan later 0.9.0. It's not very complicated to do,
> > but require sustential changes in digiKam at startup to parse an ICC
> > profile repository. Note that UFRAW project have planed to do the same
> > rules in the future...
>
> I followed the evolution of digikam from the 0.7.0 and the step that
> you've done this time is really impressive.
>

Thanks (:=)))... I'm not alone !

> Uhm... one more observation. On the info about the picture of Dynax 5D
> it is possible to have the AF point. I can't find it
> on the makernotes, while it would be nice to be visualised on the
> picture as well (I suppose this can wait the
> release 4.x.x :) )

Ah, the big problem of makernote. You need to process a reverse enginerring
with you camera to take picture and check makenote tags will changes when you
set a camera settings ! This is can be long. You can use Exiv2 or Exiftools
to read unrecognized values from makernote and trying to find the right tags
used.

If you find someting, please send me a mail, i will update Exiv2 accordinly.

Gilles

>
> --Tommaso
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
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[F.J.Cruz-2]

2006/5/14, Caulier Gilles <[hidden email]>:

> Le Dimanche 14 Mai 2006 01:59 PM, Tommaso Schiavinotto a écrit:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've a Minolta Dynax 5D, I shoot RAW and I'm trying to figure out which
> > is the best setting for my workflow using the 0.9.0 svn version.
>
> Welcome. I'm using a Dynax 5D too. Nice camera !!!
>
> >
> > I'm using the Minolta profile for the 5D as input profile, AdobeRGB as
> > Workspace and sRGB as monitor. The results that I get are really good,
> > and it really make things easier.
>
> Yes, i use too...
>
> >
> > What I would like to understand is the function of the
> > "Use color managed view". If it is unchecked, what am I seeing on the
> > monitor?
>
> This option is only to render color using your monitor color profile to trying
> to render properly all color in screen. It's not necessary to use it and
> don't change anything in image data. It's just use to render image in editor
> and image plugins preview. I have just commited changes in svn to increase
> performance about this option...
>
> >
> > Another problem is how should I behave to have pictures that I want to
> > store or send for printing as AdobeRGB, and pictures for the web (read
> > flickr) in sRGB.
> >
> > The last problem that I have is that sometime I get pictures from a
> > Dimage z5, how can I change the input profile only for those pictures?
> > Or maybe I don't care because they are simply JPGs?
> >
>
> Paco, if you can give more informations here... Thanks in advance...
>

Well, you have two options:

- Use digiKam settings to change the profile when you are going to
work with this files.

- Set digiKam for "answer" when you open an image in I.E. and later
select don't apply any profile to the picture. Later, you can use the
Color Management plugin (Fix->color->color managment) to apply the
profile you need to the image.
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[Teudimundo]

So, I did some trials. And I'm quite happy with the results.

I decided to do not use the "Use color managed view" because then the
previews
of fixing tools gives me strange behaviours (for instance Original and
Target are different before I do anything on it).

I've arranged the color management in my workflow.. I've some problem
with the interface of
the Color Management in Image Editor. I think I should get a clear idea
about the problems and submit a bug report,
but for instance a missing feature is to have a "color profile
directory" so that each time that I've to select a profile I don't have
to browse the file system.

Is there any way to make that the batch raw converter puts the exif data
and color profile as well in the jpeg?

--Tommaso

Caulier Gilles wrote:

> Le Dimanche 14 Mai 2006 04:41 PM, Tommaso Schiavinotto a écrit :
>  
>> Caulier Gilles wrote:
>>    
>>> Le Dimanche 14 Mai 2006 01:59 PM, Tommaso Schiavinotto a écrit :
>>>      
>> [...]
>>
>>    
>>>> What I would like to understand is the function of the
>>>> "Use color managed view". If it is unchecked, what am I seeing on the
>>>> monitor?
>>>>        
>>> This option is only to render color using your monitor color profile to
>>> trying to render properly all color in screen. It's not necessary to use
>>> it and don't change anything in image data. It's just use to render image
>>> in editor and image plugins preview. I have just commited changes in svn
>>> to increase performance about this option...
>>>      
>> I had updated the source this morning (and update exiv2 too, I sent a
>> message on the group for a compilation problem) ...
>> Anyway it really it's too slow in my computer (just resizing the window
>> takes few 3/4 seconds, and it's quite annoying), I noticed the
>> difference in colors if I use it or not, and if I work on levels and
>> curves I would expect to work on "real" colors...
>>    
>
> No. I have commited these change today at 3:00 PM paris hours.
>
>  
>>>> Another problem is how should I behave to have pictures that I want to
>>>> store or send for printing as AdobeRGB, and pictures for the web (read
>>>> flickr) in sRGB.
>>>>
>>>> The last problem that I have is that sometime I get pictures from a
>>>> Dimage z5, how can I change the input profile only for those pictures?
>>>> Or maybe I don't care because they are simply JPGs?
>>>>        
>>> Paco, if you can give more informations here... Thanks in advance...
>>>      
>> I would really appreciate that... :) I think that digikam is almost
>> self-explanatory,
>> and it has really simplified things for the color management, but I'm
>> particularly dumb and
>> I've always failed to understand how to exploit the color-management in
>> the workflow...
>>    
>
> Explanation will come with digiKam handbook. It's under updating by Gerhard
> Kulzer on svn. Not yet complete... Can be long. All help welcome.
>
>  
>>>> Would that be possible to have digikam choosing the right input profile
>>>> based on the EXIF data?
>>>>        
>>> Well, yes, this is my plan later 0.9.0. It's not very complicated to do,
>>> but require sustential changes in digiKam at startup to parse an ICC
>>> profile repository. Note that UFRAW project have planed to do the same
>>> rules in the future...
>>>      
>> I followed the evolution of digikam from the 0.7.0 and the step that
>> you've done this time is really impressive.
>>
>>    
>
> Thanks (:=)))... I'm not alone !
>
>  
>> Uhm... one more observation. On the info about the picture of Dynax 5D
>> it is possible to have the AF point. I can't find it
>> on the makernotes, while it would be nice to be visualised on the
>> picture as well (I suppose this can wait the
>> release 4.x.x :) )
>>    
>
> Ah, the big problem of makernote. You need to process a reverse enginerring
> with you camera to take picture and check makenote tags will changes when you
> set a camera settings ! This is can be long. You can use Exiv2 or Exiftools
> to read unrecognized values from makernote and trying to find the right tags
> used.
>
> If you find someting, please send me a mail, i will update Exiv2 accordinly.
>
> Gilles
>
>  
>> --Tommaso
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digikam-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>>    
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users
>
>  

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[Gilles Caulier-2]

On Thursday 18 May 2006 11:39 am, Tommaso Schiavinotto wrote:

> So, I did some trials. And I'm quite happy with the results.
>
> I decided to do not use the "Use color managed view" because then the
> previews
> of fixing tools gives me strange behaviours (for instance Original and
> Target are different before I do anything on it).
>
> I've arranged the color management in my workflow.. I've some problem
> with the interface of
> the Color Management in Image Editor. I think I should get a clear idea
> about the problems and submit a bug report,

http://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?product=digikam&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED

> but for instance a missing feature is to have a "color profile
> directory" so that each time that I've to select a profile I don't have
> to browse the file system.

It's planed to do later 0.9.0

>
> Is there any way to make that the batch raw converter puts the exif data
> and color profile as well in the jpeg?

planed to do : http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107905

Gilles
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