Collaboration with Kdenlive video editor: need some advice

[Jean-Michel Pouré-4]

Dear friends,

I am new to digikam and I am very impressed by the quality of your
software. It seems very actively developed. I like the quality and
simplicity and integration of tools. Digikam is probably one of the best
Kde tools. Not to say the best!

I am part of Kdenlive project. Let me explain:

We achieved basic editing and format support after years of efforts.
Kdenlive is based on MLT video engine, which processes videos. You can
visit our web site: http://www.kdenlive.org

Now we are looking for image correction tools to compete with
professional grade tools. We need to implement solutions at MLT level,
which can easily use plugins. Then we need to implement the GUI at
Kdenlive level. Remember, Kdenlive is mainly an MLT GUI.

In a first approach, I wrote this:
http://www.kdenlive.org/forum/studying-digikam-color-and-light-tools

Do you think it would be possible to use digikam via a shared library?
If not, what underlying image processing library would you recommend? I
though of GEGL. Do you think it is a good choice?

Also, is it possible to reuse digikam widget?

I know this may be a little far-fetched, but would it be possible to
establish a collaboration with Digikam i.e. work on common widgets that
rely on standard libraries.

Kind regards,
Jean-Michel Pouré
http://www.kdenlive.org

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

Le 8 juillet 2009 10:09, Jean-Michel Pouré<[hidden email]> a écrit :
> Dear friends,
>
> I am new to digikam and I am very impressed by the quality of your
> software. It seems very actively developed. I like the quality and
> simplicity and integration of tools. Digikam is probably one of the best
> Kde tools. Not to say the best!

Thanks (:=)))

>
> I am part of Kdenlive project. Let me explain:
>
> We achieved basic editing and format support after years of efforts.
> Kdenlive is based on MLT video engine, which processes videos. You can
> visit our web site: http://www.kdenlive.org

I know. Before to work on digiKam project, i have contributed a little
bit to kdenlive...

>
> Now we are looking for image correction tools to compete with
> professional grade tools. We need to implement solutions at MLT level,
> which can easily use plugins. Then we need to implement the GUI at
> Kdenlive level. Remember, Kdenlive is mainly an MLT GUI.
>
> In a first approach, I wrote this:
> http://www.kdenlive.org/forum/studying-digikam-color-and-light-tools
>
> Do you think it would be possible to use digikam via a shared library?

image processing from digiKam core is hosted in libdigikamcore.la, but
we don't take a care about version and binary compatibity, because
nobody excepted us use this code.

In theory, you can link against without any problem.

> If not, what underlying image processing library would you recommend? I
> though of GEGL. Do you think it is a good choice?

For the moment, i think no, because GEGL is in hard developement
stage. Gimp try to support it. It will be long and a lots of bugs will
be found.

Another alternative is to see in Krita project. They have take a look
indeep about image processing library available.

Take a care about ImageMagick : C++ lib and exceptions are
incompatible with Qt (tested in the past with Qt3). I don't check
since a long time with Qt4.

>
> Also, is it possible to reuse digikam widget?

Same there. libdigikamcore.la.

>
> I know this may be a little far-fetched, but would it be possible to
> establish a collaboration with Digikam i.e. work on common widgets that
> rely on standard libraries.

Why not.

But this will require a shared lib somewhere in kdegraphics. Also,
migrating kdenlive code to kde-extragear part will reduce puzzle to
developpers/users/packagers.

Best

Gilles Caulier

>
> Kind regards,
> Jean-Michel Pouré

^^^ French ??? (:=))))

> http://www.kdenlive.org
>
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>
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[Jean-Michel Pouré-4]

Le mercredi 08 juillet 2009 à 10:29 +0200, Gilles Caulier a écrit :
> Why not.
>
> But this will require a shared lib somewhere in kdegraphics. Also,
> migrating kdenlive code to kde-extragear part will reduce puzzle to
> developpers/users/packagers.

Reading your email, do you think we could rely entirely on digikam for
image processing, both at MLT (libraries) and Kdenlive (gui) levels? It
would suit me very well and would add more exposure to both projects.
What do you think?

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

Le 8 juillet 2009 10:45, Jean-Michel Pouré<[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Le mercredi 08 juillet 2009 à 10:29 +0200, Gilles Caulier a écrit :
>> Why not.
>>
>> But this will require a shared lib somewhere in kdegraphics. Also,
>> migrating kdenlive code to kde-extragear part will reduce puzzle to
>> developpers/users/packagers.
>
> Reading your email, do you think we could rely entirely on digikam for
> image processing, both at MLT (libraries) and Kdenlive (gui) levels? It
> would suit me very well and would add more exposure to both projects.
> What do you think?

This depand of your wishes for MLT and kdenlive.

libdigikamcore.la depand of a lots of external components, as Qt4,
KDE4, Exiv2, etc...

If you want only use levels tool code in kdenlive, it will be too much for you.

This shared lib is huge and can be long to load in a external program.

Note : Another image processing library to check is CImg.

Gilles Caulier
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[Jean-Michel Pouré-4]

Le mercredi 08 juillet 2009 à 10:58 +0200, Gilles Caulier a écrit :

> This depand of your wishes for MLT and kdenlive.
>
> libdigikamcore.la depand of a lots of external components, as Qt4,
> KDE4, Exiv2, etc...
>
> If you want only use levels tool code in kdenlive, it will be too much
> for you.
>
> This shared lib is huge and can be long to load in a external program.
>
> Note : Another image processing library to check is CImg.

Could we study the ability to share some tools between MLT, Kdenlive and
Digikam with limited dependencies?

This involves some work but this is to avoid creating duplicate tools.

I think of :

Color curves
Exposure: White Balance
Color: White Balance
Black and white points: White Balance or Adjust Levels
Contrast: Adjust Curves
Saturation: White Balance or Vivid or Hue/Saturation/Lightness
Resizing (interpolation) : Change Size
Sharpening
Etc ...

All processes common to video and image editing.

Kind regards,
Jean-Michel

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On Wednesday 08 July 2009 10:58:16 Gilles Caulier wrote:

> Le 8 juillet 2009 10:45, Jean-Michel Pouré<[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > Le mercredi 08 juillet 2009 à 10:29 +0200, Gilles Caulier a écrit :
> >> Why not.
> >>
> >> But this will require a shared lib somewhere in kdegraphics. Also,
> >> migrating kdenlive code to kde-extragear part will reduce puzzle to
> >> developpers/users/packagers.
> >
> > Reading your email, do you think we could rely entirely on digikam for
> > image processing, both at MLT (libraries) and Kdenlive (gui) levels? It
> > would suit me very well and would add more exposure to both projects.
> > What do you think?
>
> This depand of your wishes for MLT and kdenlive.
>
> libdigikamcore.la depand of a lots of external components, as Qt4,
> KDE4, Exiv2, etc...
>
> If you want only use levels tool code in kdenlive, it will be too much for
> you.
>
> This shared lib is huge and can be long to load in a external program.
>
> Note : Another image processing library to check is CImg.

And / or OpenCV.


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[Gilles Caulier-4]

Le 8 juillet 2009 11:08, Jean-Michel Pouré<[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Le mercredi 08 juillet 2009 à 10:58 +0200, Gilles Caulier a écrit :
>> This depand of your wishes for MLT and kdenlive.
>>
>> libdigikamcore.la depand of a lots of external components, as Qt4,
>> KDE4, Exiv2, etc...
>>
>> If you want only use levels tool code in kdenlive, it will be too much
>> for you.
>>
>> This shared lib is huge and can be long to load in a external program.
>>
>> Note : Another image processing library to check is CImg.
>
> Could we study the ability to share some tools between MLT, Kdenlive and
> Digikam with limited dependencies?

No, without to break digiKam core implementation.

In fact, if you know digiKam, we have already showfoto program (stand
alone version of image editor) which work like this.

A plugin mechanism is used to load tool in editor and edit image.

In a first time, why not to make a digiKam plugins loader in kdenlive.
This not very complicated and can be enough to test. Of course to make
it in production, a better sharing of code need to be done (plugins
loader library for ex.)

Look digiKam plugins manager code here :

http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/graphics/digikam/utilities/imageeditor/canvas/imagepluginloader.cpp?revision=982741&view=markup

In editor plugins are loaded here :

http://lxr.kde.org/source/extragear/graphics/digikam/utilities/imageeditor/editor/editorwindow.cpp#748

>
> This involves some work but this is to avoid creating duplicate tools.
>
> I think of :
>
> Color curves
> Exposure: White Balance
> Color: White Balance
> Black and white points: White Balance or Adjust Levels
> Contrast: Adjust Curves
> Saturation: White Balance or Vivid or Hue/Saturation/Lightness
> Resizing (interpolation) : Change Size
> Sharpening
> Etc ...
>
> All processes common to video and image editing.

ok. but all digiKam code/tool only play with one frame, not a series as a video.

Gilles
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[Jean-Michel Pouré-4]

Le mercredi 08 juillet 2009 à 11:25 +0200, Gilles Caulier a écrit :
> In fact, if you know digiKam, we have already showfoto program (stand
> alone version of image editor) which work like this.
>
> A plugin mechanism is used to load tool in editor and edit image.
>

Dear Gilles and other members of the community,

I played with showfoto and I am very impressed.
The interface is intuitive and all needed tools are at hand:
* color and light management,
* resizing,
* effects and much more.

showfoto would completely rock in Kdenlive.

> In a first time, why not to make a digiKam plugins loader in kdenlive.
> This not very complicated and can be enough to test. Of course to make
> it in production, a better sharing of code need to be done (plugins
> loader library for ex.)

I don't understand how to bind showfoto to MLT.

> Look digiKam plugins manager code here :
>
> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/graphics/digikam/utilities/imageeditor/canvas/imagepluginloader.cpp?revision=982741&view=markup
>
> In editor plugins are loaded here :
>
> http://lxr.kde.org/source/extragear/graphics/digikam/utilities/imageeditor/editor/editorwindow.cpp#748

This is showfoto, right?

When looking at showphoto interface, it seems that you could add layer
management. In this case, maybe we can share some code. Krita also
offers layers. I don't want to feel stupid, but it may be intesting for
digikam to use MLT as an image processing engine. You could save the MLT
code into image tags, achieving non-destruction. Or you can save the
resulting image in a two layers PNG: the original, the final rendering
and the MLT code (in tags). Science-fiction?

This is a lot of news. I have to discuss that back at Kdenlive.org.

If you are willing to bind showfoto to MLT and Kdenlive, this would
probably save us a lot of time and energy. Looking at the code, I don't
have the required skills.

Kind regards,
Jean-Michel

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