[Bug 264007] New: XMP sidecar file does not distinguish between images of the same name but with different extension

[Milan Knizek]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=264007

           Summary: XMP sidecar file does not distinguish between images
                    of the same name but with different extension
           Product: digikam
           Version: 2.0.0
          Platform: Compiled Sources
        OS/Version: Linux
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: NOR
         Component: Metadata
        AssignedTo: [hidden email]
        ReportedBy: [hidden email]


Version:           2.0.0 (using KDE 4.5.5)
OS:                Linux

In digiKam 2.0.0 (trunk), the XMP sidecar files with metadata is saved with a
pattern "image_base_name".xmp. This leads to situation, when image.crw,
image.jpg, image.cr2, etc. have to share the same metadata.

Reproducible: Always



Expected Results:  
It would be better to use XMP filename "image_base_name.ext.xmp".

If someone argues that image.cr2 and image.jpg are variants of the same image,
then there could be a switch in digiKam settings to allow both types of naming
convention.

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[Milan Knizek]

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--- Comment #1 from Milan Knizek <knizek volny cz>  2011-01-23 18:55:17 ---
Well, I just found that the current digiKam's implementation is quite hostile
to XMP keys created by other programs (in my case by darktable) and simply
removes them.
Until the hostility is solved, it might be better not to follow up the bug
reported above. (It is better to have two XMP files...)

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[Marcel Wiesweg]

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--- Comment #2 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2011-01-24 14:05:29 ---
Hm is there a standard about sidecar file naming? How is this supposed to be
solved?

And please report the other issue, preferably with a sample sidecar file.
Thanks!

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--- Comment #3 from Milan Knizek <knizek volny cz>  2011-01-24 20:18:24 ---
I googled shortly and it looks like Adobe Lightroom intended XMP sidecars only
for images, which cannot easily embed the xmp inside. That is: XMP would exist
only for raw workflow to camera proprietary formats.

I.e. Adobe first created a flexible solution and then limited it to raw files.

Another trouble arise if a sidecar is shared for image.jpg and image.cr2: if
the user adds tags to cr2 file, it gets written to image.xmp, however image.jpg
would not get automatically updated for the new tags. As a consequence, if the
user adds different tags to image.jpg, the image.xmp gets overwritten and
original tags are lost...

So either digiKam disables writing sidecars for image types, which support
embedding (which would be a pitty IMHO and would not solve the problem for
situations like image.crw vs image.cr2 anyway), or better start using
image.ext.xmp format.

The latter might of course create incompability with other applications...

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--- Comment #4 from Milan Knizek <knizek volny cz>  2011-01-24 20:55:03 ---
Some reading from Adobe for various multimedia files and XMP:
http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/xmp/pdfs/XMPSpecificationPart3.pdf

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[Marcel Wiesweg]

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--- Comment #5 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2011-02-05 13:18:19 ---
"For applications that need to find external XMP files, look in the same
directory for a file with the same name as
the main document but with an .xmp extension. (This is called a sidecar XMP
file.)"

Doesn't really help, one reader will assume the "name" is the basename, the
other will assume the "name" is the complete file name.

Which path does Adobe and other software take? name.suf.xmp or name.xmp? In the
latter case, they'll have the same problem.

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--- Comment #6 from Milan Knizek <knizek volny cz>  2011-02-05 18:45:27 ---
MS Windows users do not know what a file extension is :-)

Google says, Adobe product creates sidecar xmp files only for proprietary raw
files and names them "name.xmp". For other common file formats, the xmp is
embedded and no sidecar file created (JPEG, DNG).
http://www.oreillynet.com/digitalmedia/blog/2007/04/xmp_sidecar_files_and_lightroo.html

Better someone actually confirms if it still is true nowadays...

P.S. Having read more about the matter, I would now prefer compatibility
(name.xmp) to flexibility (name.ext.xmp).

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--- Comment #7 from Martin Fahrendorf <martin fahrendorf de>  2011-03-07 12:17:02 ---
Created an attachment (id=57743)
 --> (http://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=57743)
darktable sidecar file example

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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--- Comment #8 from Gilles Caulier <caulier gilles gmail com>  2011-03-07 12:49:45 ---
Andreas,

Do you have any Exiv2 users feedback about XMP sidecar file naming convention ?

DarkTable use a naming notation based on complete name of the origin file with
.xmp attached. With this we can distinguish between foo.jpg and foo.cr2 file
where the sidecar files become foo.jpg.xmp and foo.cr2.xmp.

Do you know other photo management application which use the same way ? What do
you think about ?

Gilles Caulier

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--- Comment #9 from Andreas Huggel <ahuggel gmx net>  2011-03-07 14:57:55 ---
> Do you have any Exiv2 users feedback about XMP sidecar file naming convention

Maybe someone listening on the Exiv2 forum has an opinion:
http://dev.exiv2.org/boards/3/topics/842

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[Christoph Anton Mitterer]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=264007


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--- Comment #10 from Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo scientia net>  2011-03-13 02:48:33 ---
Geeqie places the files as .metadata/<complete filename>.gq.xmp, where
<compelte filename> is e.g. "image.png".

I'm not sure whether the subdir is really covered by the standard, but it has
at least the advantage of hiding the (possible loads of) sidecar files.

(Not sure why they've added the ".gq" part...

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--- Comment #11 from Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo scientia net>  2011-03-13 02:51:08 ---
Created an attachment (id=57912)
 --> (http://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=57912)
Geequie XMP sidecar file example

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[Michael G. Hansen]

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--- Comment #12 from Michael G. Hansen <mike mghansen de>  2011-03-13 11:53:57 ---
(In reply to comment #10)
> Geeqie places the files as .metadata/<complete filename>.gq.xmp, where
> <compelte filename> is e.g. "image.png".
>
> I'm not sure whether the subdir is really covered by the standard, but it has
> at least the advantage of hiding the (possible loads of) sidecar files.

IMHO hiding the files in an extra folder is not a good idea, because when a
user copies the RAW file using a file manager to another folder, the copied
file has lost all metadata. If sidecar files are visible, to user can easily
see that there are extra files to take care of. In digikam we could hide the
xmp files and transparently copy them along.

Michael

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[Marcel Wiesweg]

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--- Comment #13 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2011-03-13 16:26:37 ---
As we learn on the exiv2 forum, the mess is complete! now that some
applications even use both conventions at the same time to have to different
sidecar files...
The original specification is not precise, yet leans to the basename.xmp
convention. This simply fails to handle the case in the original report here.
The basename.suffix.xmp convention looks technically superior then.
It would be interesting to see what major competitors do when they are given
such files to _read_ even if they write in the basename.xmp convention?

For reading, we can easily support both, giving priority to basename.suffix.xmp
for example. For writing, I would tend to use basename.suffix.xmp unless that
makes us incompatible with market leaders.

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--- Comment #14 from Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo scientia net>  2011-03-13 22:41:37 ---
a) "Loosing" the meta-data is IMO _always_ a risk, whether you have it in a
subdir or not. (Of course not if you move/copy/etc with "aware" programs).

b) Even if the original convention would be to use basename.xmp, I'd suggest
to:

_write_ <fullname.xmp> ... (perhaps except a user - for compatibility reason -
configures manually not to do so)

_read_ both styles (perhaps even with and without things like a .metadata-dir.
In cases where it's not clear which file is meant (e.g. when having
basename.xmp) the metadata could simply be taken for all versions of that file.

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--- Comment #15 from Gilles Caulier <caulier gilles gmail com>  2011-03-17 12:30:41 ---
This is my view-point about the lead subject of this entry : we must support a
naming convention including original filename extension.

Typical case :

0/ Original file is RAW : myphoto.arw

1/ i apply digiKam properties in my workflow for ex. to identify good items in
my album. arw is read only. digiKam create myphoto.arw.xmp

2/ I start to edit original file, and create a PNG copy as first refence of my
work. I apply another digiKam properties to this new file, different than
original. digiKam create myphoto.png.xmp

3/ from this PNG image i create a ready to publish JPEG. Same way than with PNG
about digiKam properties. digiKam create myphoto.jpg.xmp.

To resume files below will be created in this ex. :

myphoto.arw            // original
myphoto.arw.xmp
myphoto.png            // lossless copy of modified image
myphoto.png.xmp
myphoto.jpg            // lossy copy ready to publish, print, export...
myphoto.jpg.xmp

For each item created, users can customize properties. We must to have a
customized XMP file for each items created/managed in digiKam. Using file name
extension is the right way to do it.

Gilles Caulier

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Gilles Caulier <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |FIXED




--- Comment #16 from Gilles Caulier <caulier gilles gmail com>  2011-03-17 14:44:39 ---
Git commit 0a420804d83d6a1c33253b14626a502d7834c41b by Gilles Caulier.
Committed on 17/03/2011 at 14:42.
Pushed by cgilles into branch 'master'.

handle XMP sidecar files using full name of files with extention + ".xmp"
BUGS: 264007

M  +16   -5    libkexiv2/kexiv2.cpp    
M  +6    -0    libkexiv2/kexiv2.h    
M  +2    -4    libkexiv2/kexiv2_p.cpp    

http://commits.kde.org/libkexiv2/0a420804d83d6a1c33253b14626a502d7834c41b

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--- Comment #17 from Per Ångström <per angstrom autark se>  2011-03-26 18:01:35 ---
If I understand this correctly, I'm afraid the new naming scheme will collide
with that of Bibble, which also uses the basename.extension +".xmp" scheme,
e.g., "DSC1234.arw.xmp".

How about basename.extension + ".dgk.xmp"?

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--- Comment #18 from Milan Knizek <knizek volny cz>  2011-03-26 20:03:40 ---
@17: apps should be friendly to existing metadata in XMP and should not solve
the problem of limited interoperability the "easy" way of creating its own
sidecar. (Can you imagine the mess: mybestphoto.cr2.darktable.xmp,
mybestphoto.cr2.digikam.xmp, mybestphoto.cr2.bibble.xmp,...)

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--- Comment #19 from Per Ångström <per angstrom autark se>  2011-03-26 20:28:25 ---
Actually I would rather have the "mess" of different sidecars than trusting all
applications to play nice.

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