[Bug 252964] New: Please remove libs from kdegraphics and make independant

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=252964

           Summary: Please remove libs from kdegraphics and make
                    independant
           Product: digikam
           Version: 1.4.0
          Platform: Fedora RPMs
        OS/Version: Linux
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: wishlist
          Priority: NOR
         Component: libkdcraw
        AssignedTo: [hidden email]
        ReportedBy: [hidden email]


Version:           1.4.0 (using KDE 4.4.5)
OS:                Linux

Hi Digikam Team

I have a very stable KDE 4.4.5 running on Fedora 12 and I am forced to use
Digikam 1.2.0/Kipi plugins 1.2.0...

Fedora 13 users also have the same problem - namely the kdegraphics/libs which
aren't actually KDE version specific are tied to the KDE version through the
kdegraphics dependancies.

Neither fedora nor rpmfusion are supporting Digikam 1.3.0 or 1.40 on Fedora 12
or Fedora 13. Arghh!!!

Please remove these libs from KDE SC and make an independant libary package so
that all users can enjoy the latest digikam releases by installing from repos..


Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
Try building am rpm from kipiplugins source code package..!

Actual Results:  
Build fails at start on dependency check specifically libkdcraw, libkexiv2 and
opencv are not current enough in kdegraphics 4.4.5

Expected Results:  
Should be possible to build kdegraphics, libkdcraw, libkexiv2 and opencv
independently...

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[Martin Klapetek]

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--- Comment #1 from Martin Klapetek <martin klapetek gmail com>  2010-10-02 11:44:57 ---
You can add the kde-forge repo to your fedora, it contains always the latest
KDE packages for the current fedora distro (so now it's 13) and also for the
previous release. So you can add this, update to KDE 4.5.1 and happily compile
digiKam 1.4.0 or even 2.0 for that matter. This repo is maintained by fedora
people, so you don't have to worry about the quality and compatibility of the
packages. I'm using it myself and I'm compiling digiKam on it everyday ;)

Anyway, here it is: http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/

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[Marcel Wiesweg]

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             Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |DOWNSTREAM




--- Comment #2 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2010-10-02 14:16:09 ---
Some KDE apps (namely Gwenview, Krita) depend on those libraries, so they are
not going to be removed from kdegraphics.
We will also not put chains around our feet and stop developing just because
some downstream doesnt care to package dependencies

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[Gilles Caulier-4]

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--- Comment #3 from Gilles Caulier <caulier gilles gmail com>  2010-10-02 15:17:33 ---
and now, Plasma components use libkexiv2 to play with image metadata, as
slideshow and desktop background...

Gilles Caulier

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--- Comment #4 from Simon Lewis <simon lewis slnet-online de>  2010-10-04 19:02:13 ---
(In reply to comment #1)
> You can add the kde-forge repo to your fedora, it contains always the latest
> KDE packages for the current fedora distro (so now it's 13) and also for the
> previous release. So you can add this, update to KDE 4.5.1 and happily compile
> digiKam 1.4.0 or even 2.0 for that matter. This repo is maintained by fedora
> people, so you don't have to worry about the quality and compatibility of the
> packages. I'm using it myself and I'm compiling digiKam on it everyday ;)
>
> Anyway, here it is: http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/

This is a good reply - useful link and an insight into what KDE updates will
eventually arrive in the standard repos, many thanks Martin

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--- Comment #5 from Simon Lewis <simon lewis slnet-online de>  2010-10-04 19:21:26 ---
(In reply to comment #3)
> and now, Plasma components use libkexiv2 to play with image metadata, as
> slideshow and desktop background...
>
> Gilles Caulier

1) Kaffeine (1.1) and k3b (2.1.0) are both independent of the KDE4 version -
Digikam (1.4.0) and Kipiplugins (1.4.0) should be too...

2) How should kdegraphics be packaged so that the libkdcraw and libkexiv2 can
be upgraded using yum (or any package manager come to that) whilst still
keeping a stable version of the KDE desktop installed?

3) Please keep developing Digikam and Kipiplugins!

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--- Comment #6 from Marcel Wiesweg <marcel wiesweg gmx de>  2010-10-04 20:53:26 ---

> 1) Kaffeine (1.1) and k3b (2.1.0) are both independent of the KDE4 version -
> Digikam (1.4.0) and Kipiplugins (1.4.0) should be too...

IIRC the main driving force was Gwenview when it became the default KDE picture
viewer

>
> 2) How should kdegraphics be packaged so that the libkdcraw and libkexiv2 can
> be upgraded using yum (or any package manager come to that) whilst still
> keeping a stable version of the KDE desktop installed?

dir /usr/lib64/libkdcraw.so*
/usr/lib64/libkdcraw.so -> libkdcraw.so.9
/usr/lib64/libkdcraw.so.8 -> libkdcraw.so.8.1.0
/usr/lib64/libkdcraw.so.8.1.0
/usr/lib64/libkdcraw.so.9 -> libkdcraw.so.9.0.0
/usr/lib64/libkdcraw.so.9.0.0

zypper search kdcraw
i | libkdcraw8           | Shared library interface around dcraw    | Paket

We increase the binary version number with each binary incompatible release.
There's no problem to install them in parallel. The 8 is from KDE 4.5 OpenSuse
packages, 9 is probably my self-installed version.
As you see, opensuse even includes the "8" in the package name.

> 3) Please keep developing Digikam and Kipiplugins!

For sure ;-)

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--- Comment #7 from Gilles Caulier <caulier gilles gmail com>  2010-12-13 13:03:05 ---
I re-open this file due to change in digiKam 2.0.0 which is now a collection of
code including kipi-plugins and all kdegraphics/libs (devel version, increased
than kdegraphics/libs)

In fact kdegraphics/libs still avaialble, but digiKam will be published now
with all kdegraphics/libs require to run digiKam and kipi-plugins.

Gilles Caulier

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[Tomáš Chvátal]

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--- Comment #8 from Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus gentoo org>  2011-01-28 22:01:36 ---
(In reply to comment #7)
> I re-open this file due to change in digiKam 2.0.0 which is now a collection of
> code including kipi-plugins and all kdegraphics/libs (devel version, increased
> than kdegraphics/libs)
>
> In fact kdegraphics/libs still avaialble, but digiKam will be published now
> with all kdegraphics/libs require to run digiKam and kipi-plugins.
>
Hello Gilles,
I must strongly object to this idea.
You introduce possible security threat and possibility to introduce bugs just
thanks to the code duplication you are right now doing. For more i really
recommend fedora guys description and reasoning why the bundling is bad
<http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:No_Bundled_Libraries>.

I know you probably think you are making things easier for us maintainers but
contrary you are just making sure that we wont probably ship the named versions
of digikam at all. Given the fact we will allow only official libraries to be
linked we wil have to wait onto the official libs to be released and then use
those if possible. Anything that uses bundled libraries at this scale wont be
able to get to Gentoo main tree at all (also i am quite sure at least debian
and redhat guys will do the same).

So how should one approach issues with libraries like this:
1) use only older code and rely on that - not quite bright
2) conditionaly enable more features when linking to some version - really
smart

So given we choose the second option we will be able to ship digikam with
"older" libraries where you can develop shiny new features (most applications
still support kde 4.4 and just few have beta releases that start to require
4.5). If we as packages find that libraries were updated (given soname change
or whatever else [user updated his kde]) it will trigger update of the digikam
itself, so it enables more features that will be availible at hand for the
user.

Tiny example of what i mean by second possible option (sorry for python, but i
aint exacly c expert but it is just proof of concept anyway)

import sys
if sys.hexversion < 0x02070000:
    # do complex calculation with some features
else:
    # user gave us shiny new python so we can use full features YAY

I really hope we will convince you guys to change your decision because i
really dont want to remove digikam from main tree since I am its user too. :)

With best
Gentoo KDE Team Lead
Gentoo QA Member

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--- Comment #9 from Julien Narboux <Julien narboux fr>  2011-01-28 22:44:10 ---

I think the decision of Gilles to include dependencies in the distribution of
DigiKam is not to help linux packagers butto help any user who wants to test
and provide debug information about the latest version of DigiKam using Linux,
Windows or MacOSX.
If I understood well, the way the bundle is done using CMake scripts does not
prevent packager from doing things properly and building packages which
reference the libraries of the distribution. If the sufficient dependencies are
found then the libraries which are bundled with DigiKam will not be used during
compilation (Gilles Marcel correct me if I am wrong).

The point 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5
<http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:No_Bundled_Libraries> do not apply to
these libraries, because they are not a fork but are developed by the DigiKam
team.

Moreover, in the exception you can read:
"When an application needs unreleased features of a library and that library
has committed to those features (usually, the changes are checked into the
trunk branch of the upstream's revision control system) but the library has not
yet made a release that has that code an exception may be granted to bundle
that library until the Fedora packages contain the necessary extra features."

I think this is a good description of the situation for the DigiKam librairies.

Julien

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--- Comment #10 from Simon Lewis <simon lewis slnet-online de>  2011-01-29 12:45:59 ---
(In reply to comment #8)

Reading the recent comments it appears that the main issue has not been
understood, namely the libs that Digikam/Kipi-plugins require are bundled with
Kmultimedialibs.

Thus, depending on the distribution and release you are using, you cannot use
any of the current Digikam releases.

For example:

Fedora 12 (KDE 4.4.x) users are stuck with Digikam <= 1.2.0

Fedora 13 & 14 (KDE 4.5.x) - Digikam <= 1.7.0

(the forthcoming) Fedora 15 (KDE 4.6.x) - Digikam 2.0.0?

This is of course nonsense. Whilst some of the KDE applications are dependant
on libraries developed by the Digikam team, the libs should be packaged
separately and not bundled with Kmultimedialibs as now.

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--- Comment #11 from S. Burmeister <sven burmeister gmx net>  2011-01-29 14:39:55 ---
I think the very fact that I can use digikam 2 and 1.8 with KDE 4.5 on openSUSE
11.3 proves you wrong.

So rather than blaming digikam blame whoever does packaging for your distro.

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--- Comment #12 from Simon Lewis <simon lewis slnet-online de>  2011-01-29 17:27:44 ---
(In reply to comment #11)
> I think the very fact that I can use digikam 2 and 1.8 with KDE 4.5 on openSUSE
> 11.3 proves you wrong.
>
> So rather than blaming digikam blame whoever does packaging for your distro.

Sorry S. but I think you have an attitude problem - there is not a hint of
blaming anyone in my comment.

When you look at the following listing you will see that the Fedora packagers
have packed the KDESC as predetermined by KDE:

kdeaccessibility.x86_64                1:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdeartwork.x86_64                      4.5.5-1.fc14              
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdebase.x86_64                         6:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdebase-runtime.x86_64                 4.5.5-1.fc14              
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdebase-workspace.x86_64               4.5.5-2.fc14              
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdeedu.x86_64                          4.5.5-1.fc14              
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdegames.x86_64                        6:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdegraphics.x86_64                     7:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdelibs.x86_64                         6:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdelibs-common.x86_64                  6:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdemultimedia.x86_64                   6:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdenetwork.x86_64                      7:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdepim.x86_64                          6:4.4.9-2.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdepimlibs.x86_64                      4.5.5-1.fc14              
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdeplasma-addons.x86_64                4.5.5-1.fc14              
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdesdk.x86_64                          4.5.5-1.fc14              
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdeutils.x86_64                        6:4.5.5-1.fc14            
@anaconda-InstallationRepo-201010211827.x86_64
kdeadmin.x86_64                        7:4.5.5-1.fc14              updates      
kdebindings.x86_64                     4.5.5-1.fc14                updates      
kdegraphics-devel.x86_64               7:4.5.5-1.fc14              updates      
kdetoys.x86_64                         7:4.5.5-1.fc14              updates

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--- Comment #13 from S. Burmeister <sven burmeister gmx net>  2011-01-29 18:20:16 ---
(In reply to comment #12)
> Sorry S. but I think you have an attitude problem - there is not a hint of
> blaming anyone in my comment.

If you say so!

> When you look at the following listing you will see that the Fedora packagers
> have packed the KDESC as predetermined by KDE:

You do not get the point! If Fedora is not able to package digikam in a way
that makes it accessible to their users that's entirely their problem and not a
bug in digikam! Hence re-opening this bug is useless.

If you would have read my comment and the other comments in this report you
would have gathered that your claim is wrong and thus your arguments regarding
"cannot use" refuted.

Please submit a bug at fedora's bugzilla about their packaging and refer to
openSUSE if they need help on how to package digikam 1.8 or 2.0 in a way that
it can be used with KDE 4.5 or other versions.

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--- Comment #14 from Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus gentoo org>  2011-01-29 18:47:49 ---
Please guys this bug is not about what distribution package what KDE version in
their main repository.
Simple fact even tho Digikam maintainers are also maintainers of the named
libraries they now try to bundle should make them rather split them off the
kdegraphics module and make them external libraries so both KDE core stuff and
digikam can depend on them without relying on the whole release cycle for KDE
SC.

Still my comment about how to manage mutliple versions of libraries apply, yet
with keeping abi compatibility it is not really that hard task.

The note about unreleased libraries here does not apply, because you say right
now after release of KDE SC 4.6.0 you start requiring libraries that will be
around for 4.7.0.

And even tho you make things a bit easier for you as upstream developer because
you just pull the given libs from head into your repository and bang things to
compile that way you have to realise how much package maintainers you will make
unhappy with this move.

As an example let me introduce you to nice image library called freeimage. It
is quite nice library altho it bundles ALL libraries that are released
separately in its tarball and it always is checked to built against them. So we
as downstream maintainers waste quite of the time to update patchset with every
release to make it build with system libraries. This is the amount of patches
we introduce with every release
<http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/gamerlay.git;a=tree;f=media-libs/freeimage/files/3.14.1;h=21b0790cb948de7fefbe87426f97ffbd21d0f224;hb=HEAD>.
Quite few distributions already removed the package from the main repo or lag
behind few releases because simply nobody wants to mess and port forward those
patches.

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--- Comment #15 from S. Burmeister <sven burmeister gmx net>  2011-01-29 19:20:03 ---
Hm, so why are some packagers not having an issue and simply pack digikam in a
way that works?

And what difference would it make?

Scenario. You ship kdegraphics 4.4 and a digikam package that depends on it.
Now the next digikam version depends on some libs that are part of KDE 4.5.
Thus you have to package them and bundle them as openSUSE does, i.e. KDE 4.5
libs in an extra package installed along the 4.4 version which you have to keep
for KDE 4.4 apps.

So let's say those libs would not be in kdegraphics but stand-alone. What would
change? You would still have to keep the old libs from 4.4 around for KDE 4.4
and ship the new ones as a package.

And it's not like you double the libs. If the libs version of the installed KDE
suits the digikam version they are used and no extra package is necessary. Only
if they are not available via the installed KDE the bundled libs are used.

As I stated before and this does not depend on a special distro. Packaging
digikam 1.8 or 2 for other KDE versions but 4.6 is possible and the packagers I
know who even provide daily snapshots are not unhappy at all with digikam's
current system.

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--- Comment #16 from Simon Lewis <simon lewis slnet-online de>  2011-01-29 19:28:31 ---
Many distributions are not packaging the newer libs where there is a so called
soname bump and the abi changes, thus avoiding conflicts...

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[Tomáš Chvátal]

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--- Comment #17 from Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus gentoo org>  2011-01-29 20:05:32 ---
Aah, so useless discussion...
Be sure to do whatever you want we will just whack it away or won't ship
digikam, that sums it up.

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[S. Burmeister]

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--- Comment #18 from S. Burmeister <sven burmeister gmx net>  2011-01-29 20:12:15 ---
(In reply to comment #17)
> Aah, so useless discussion...
> Be sure to do whatever you want we will just whack it away or won't ship
> digikam, that sums it up.

Blackmailing instead of offering the same service to your users as other
distros do – nice!

What about putting your users first and following the example of other distros
which are able to supply non-conflicting and perfectly working packages instead
of blackmailing digikam devs to obey your way or whack their app? Pathetic!

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--- Comment #19 from Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus gentoo org>  2011-01-30 20:08:03 ---
(In reply to comment #18)

> (In reply to comment #17)
> > Aah, so useless discussion...
> > Be sure to do whatever you want we will just whack it away or won't ship
> > digikam, that sums it up.
>
> Blackmailing instead of offering the same service to your users as other
> distros do – nice!
>
> What about putting your users first and following the example of other distros
> which are able to supply non-conflicting and perfectly working packages instead
> of blackmailing digikam devs to obey your way or whack their app? Pathetic!

Blackmailing? Not at all. I tried to politely point out that budling libraries
is NEVER the solution but you are not interested in it and obviously act really
weirdly even on official medium like bugzilla.

If I would be blackmailing developers of digikam i would say something like "We
wont ship digikam unless you package your stuff like we want it!". But no I
SAID that we will do our best to package it for users obeying to all our QA
standards or fail doing so and have to remove the digikam (not adhering to some
set of QA rules usualy results in such, but I hope we will be able to do it
anyway). I myself am user of the digikam and I wont stop using it just because
some of you are people I obviously can't get along with, so given anything I
want that thing working even for myself.

Rest is just result that your attitude on this bug is being total <pick your
favorite offensive word> so i don't want to discuss any stuff with you any
longer nor help you to do it proper way like i tried to do when i wrote first
comment here.

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