"Apply" button in right side bar

[Marcel Wiesweg]

Hi,

there were some complaints about the Apply button in the Comments/Tags
sidebar. These included:
- users assume that the changes are applied only if the button is pressed, and
not as well when moving to the next image
- when editing multiple pictures, inadvertent changes can easily affect many
pictures. So here it is even more important to make clear when changes are
applied.

I would like to add that implementing an undo feature is not trivial.

My suggestions:

1) Single selection
Changes are applied immediately, visible after each keystroke in main view.
(Only database, DMetadata is slow, update still only on selection change)
The Apply button is not needed.

Cons:
The Apply button has been introduced because some users have complained that
the behaviour of the Comments/Tags tab is obscur.

2) Multiple selection
At the very first change, the user is asked if he wants to auto-apply changes
in multiple selection. This option can be changed from the menu on the "More"
button.
        a) Auto-apply
                Changes are applied on selection change
        b) No auto-apply
                The "Apply" button is shown. Changes are applied
                only if the button is pressed.
                On selection change with changes, a message box
                asks if changes shall be applied.

Please tell me if this is an improvement to the current situation:
usability-wise, for "educating" new users, and acceptable for power users.
Or if the current situtation is all right.
Or give other suggestions.

Marcel
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-2]

Hi all,

I would to add than Marcel speaking about current implemetation from svn
trunk. The Apply button have been added to Comments & Tags sidebar and will
be available to next digiKam 0.9.1 release.

Gilles Caulier

Le dimanche 21 janvier 2007 22:19, Marcel Wiesweg a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> there were some complaints about the Apply button in the Comments/Tags
> sidebar. These included:
> - users assume that the changes are applied only if the button is pressed,
> and not as well when moving to the next image
> - when editing multiple pictures, inadvertent changes can easily affect
> many pictures. So here it is even more important to make clear when changes
> are applied.
>
> I would like to add that implementing an undo feature is not trivial.
>
> My suggestions:
>
> 1) Single selection
> Changes are applied immediately, visible after each keystroke in main view.
> (Only database, DMetadata is slow, update still only on selection change)
> The Apply button is not needed.
>
> Cons:
> The Apply button has been introduced because some users have complained
> that the behaviour of the Comments/Tags tab is obscur.
>
> 2) Multiple selection
> At the very first change, the user is asked if he wants to auto-apply
> changes in multiple selection. This option can be changed from the menu on
> the "More" button.
> a) Auto-apply
> Changes are applied on selection change
> b) No auto-apply
> The "Apply" button is shown. Changes are applied
> only if the button is pressed.
> On selection change with changes, a message box
> asks if changes shall be applied.
>
> Please tell me if this is an improvement to the current situation:
> usability-wise, for "educating" new users, and acceptable for power users.
> Or if the current situtation is all right.
> Or give other suggestions.
>
> Marcel
> _______________________________________________
> Digikam-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Fabien-5]

Hi,

Marcel Wiesweg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there were some complaints about the Apply button in the Comments/Tags
> sidebar. These included:
> - users assume that the changes are applied only if the button is pressed, and
> not as well when moving to the next image
> - when editing multiple pictures, inadvertent changes can easily affect many
> pictures. So here it is even more important to make clear when changes are
> applied.

Yes, I agree !

> My suggestions:
 >
 > [...]

>
> 2) Multiple selection
> At the very first change, the user is asked if he wants to auto-apply changes
> in multiple selection. This option can be changed from the menu on the "More"
> button.
> a) Auto-apply
> Changes are applied on selection change
> b) No auto-apply
> The "Apply" button is shown. Changes are applied
> only if the button is pressed.
> On selection change with changes, a message box
> asks if changes shall be applied.

This suggestion looks good for me. I vote for it !
I think it would really be an improvement.
I also hope it will be possible to keep focus on thumbnail view when
Comments/Tags sidebar is shown. But Gilles already said it may be
necessary to implement a "focus proxy", so we'll see :)

ref:
<http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131743>


Again, thanks for the work you do on digiKam.

--
Fabien

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Christian David-2]

Am Sonntag, 21. Januar 2007 22:19 schrieb Marcel Wiesweg:
> there were some complaints about the Apply button in the Comments/Tags
> sidebar.

Hi, I have another idea: A undo button. Then the best of a non-apply button
and a apply button system is combind. All changes are saved, even if you
forget to click the apply button, and you can undo the changes in case of a
mistake (instead of not clicking the button).

Because a big disadvantage of the apply button is, that you will click it (or
use a shortcut) automatically if you change a lot of pictures - without
thinking about it. The mistake is noticed later, but then the change is
allready saved.

Best wishes!
Christian Dávid

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Birkir A. Barkarson]

> Please tell me if this is an improvement to the current situation:
> usability-wise, for "educating" new users, and acceptable for power users.
> Or if the current situtation is all right.
> Or give other suggestions.

Usability-wise, if you added an Apply button I would think it would work
best in the following way:

1) Single selection
Apply changes only when the button is pressed otherwise nothing is done.

2) Multiple selection
Apply changes only when the buttons is pressed otherwise do nothing.  If
more than X thumbnails are selected a warning pop up seeks confirmation.

The pop up might warn that you have selected x thumbnails and that it
might be a time consuming process (particularly if iptc meta data is
updated as well).  Suitable values for x might be 10 or so?

I think this is the simplest way to implement this and the digikam UI
really needs some fixing.  If a power user options is required then the
Apply button should be optional and all changes should be applied at the
earliest opportunity regardless if the changes affect 1 or more items
(much like it is now).  To have the button appear only under certain
conditions is confusing, consistency is prime.

Cheers,

BAB
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

Hi all,

I agree withe Birkir.
One consistence solution is better than different ways for the same action  
under specific conditions.
For me it is also OK if there are different ways in parallel.

regards
Stefan

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Fabien-5]

Hi,

Finally, I also agree.
See below.

Stefan Haag wrote:
> I agree withe Birkir.
> One consistence solution is better than different ways for the same action  
> under specific conditions.

IMHO, this point is very important.

So, I'm ok with that :

<<
1) Single selection
Apply changes only when the button is pressed otherwise nothing is done.

2) Multiple selection
Apply changes only when the buttons is pressed otherwise do nothing.  If
more than X thumbnails are selected a warning pop up seeks confirmation.
 >>

But, to not break another wish :
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131743
it's also important to be able to modify comments, apply changes and
switch to the next picture using the keyboard. So, either the apply
button could be optional (inside the settings), or there should be a way
to apply changes using a keyboard shortcut.

I'd prefer it to be configurable using part of Marcel's proposal :
<<
        a) Auto-apply
                Changes are applied on selection change

        b) No auto-apply
                The "Apply" button is shown. Changes are applied
                only if the button is pressed.
                On selection change with changes, a message box
                asks if changes shall be applied.
 >>

By default, it would be "no auto-apply" and the 1st time the message box
  is shown, there could be an checkbox option to choose the prefered
behavior : "don't ask again" (=> switch to auto-apply).

--
Fabien

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

Op woensdag 24 januari 2007 18:45, schreef Fabien:
  > I'd prefer it to be configurable using part of Marcel's proposal :
  > <<
  > a) Auto-apply
  > Changes are applied on selection change
  >
  > b) No auto-apply
  > The "Apply" button is shown. Changes are applied
  > only if the button is pressed.
  > On selection change with changes, a message box
  > asks if changes shall be applied.
  >
  >
  > By default, it would be "no auto-apply" and the 1st time the
  > message box is shown, there could be an checkbox option to choose
  > the prefered behavior : "don't ask again" (=> switch to
  > auto-apply).
This is exactly how I like this to be implemented.

And about the focus: leave it where the mouse is last clicked.

Caspar.
--
Politiek en ambtelijk operationeel micromanagement met de uitvoering van
operaties, kan letterlijk dodelijk zijn. --Rob de Wijk (2005)
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Mercredi 24 Janvier 2007 19:21, Caspar Maessen a écrit :

> Op woensdag 24 januari 2007 18:45, schreef Fabien:
>   > I'd prefer it to be configurable using part of Marcel's proposal :
>   > <<
>   > a) Auto-apply
>   > Changes are applied on selection change
>   >
>   > b) No auto-apply
>   > The "Apply" button is shown. Changes are applied
>   > only if the button is pressed.
>   > On selection change with changes, a message box
>   > asks if changes shall be applied.
>   >
>   >
>   > By default, it would be "no auto-apply" and the 1st time the
>   > message box is shown, there could be an checkbox option to choose
>   > the prefered behavior : "don't ask again" (=> switch to
>   > auto-apply).
>
> This is exactly how I like this to be implemented.
>
> And about the focus: leave it where the mouse is last clicked.

Yes, i will fix it before 0.9.1 release...

Gilles
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Marcel Wiesweg]

Thanks for your feedback, after reading the replies it seems that consistency
is important and was not achieved by the first proposal.

So to sum up the discussion, here are revised suggestions, much like what
Fabien suggested, with no discrimination single/multiple selection:

1) Default mode
You need to click the Apply button to apply changes. A message box asks for
confirmation to apply when the selection changes.
The message box has a "Always apply changes" checkbox.

2) "Always apply" mode
Changes are automatically applied.
The setting can be changed from the message box in (1), or from the popup menu
on the "More" button.

Question: Should the apply button be shown in mode (2)?


Pros and Cons:
This solution makes clear for new users when changes are applied, and saves
them from inadvertent changes.
Power users can disable the confirmation. In this mode you are not saved from
inadvertent changes in multiple selection, but for the sake of consistency
that's it.

Anyone who cannot agree with such a solution?

Marcel
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Gilles Caulier-2]

Le Samedi 27 Janvier 2007 15:41, Marcel Wiesweg a écrit :

> Thanks for your feedback, after reading the replies it seems that
> consistency is important and was not achieved by the first proposal.
>
> So to sum up the discussion, here are revised suggestions, much like what
> Fabien suggested, with no discrimination single/multiple selection:
>
> 1) Default mode
> You need to click the Apply button to apply changes. A message box asks for
> confirmation to apply when the selection changes.
> The message box has a "Always apply changes" checkbox.
>
> 2) "Always apply" mode
> Changes are automatically applied.
> The setting can be changed from the message box in (1), or from the popup
> menu on the "More" button.
>
> Question: Should the apply button be shown in mode (2)?
>
>
> Pros and Cons:
> This solution makes clear for new users when changes are applied, and saves
> them from inadvertent changes.
> Power users can disable the confirmation. In this mode you are not saved
> from inadvertent changes in multiple selection, but for the sake of
> consistency that's it.
>
> Anyone who cannot agree with such a solution?
>

Marcel,

Like i said in private mail, i prefert to have the "Mode" setting in digikam
Setup dialog, for example in Misc page.

Gilles

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

Op zaterdag 27 januari 2007 18:15, schreef Caulier Gilles:

  > Like i said in private mail, i prefert to have the "Mode" setting
  > in digikam Setup dialog, for example in Misc page.
The same here.

Caspar.
--
De neiging om de rommel die wij zelf veroorzaakt hebben in de prullenbak
van de overheid te werpen en dan schamper toe te zien hoe die daar geen
raad mee weet, wordt voortdurend sterker. -- Godfried Bomans (197?)
_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users

[Fabien-5]

Hello,

Caulier Gilles wrote:
> Le Samedi 27 Janvier 2007 15:41, Marcel Wiesweg a écrit :
>
>>Thanks for your feedback, after reading the replies it seems that
>>consistency is important and was not achieved by the first proposal.
>>
>>So to sum up the discussion, here are revised suggestions, much like what
>>Fabien suggested, with no discrimination single/multiple selection:

Ok, great !

>>1) Default mode
>>You need to click the Apply button to apply changes. A message box asks for
>>confirmation to apply when the selection changes.
>>The message box has a "Always apply changes" checkbox.
>>
>>2) "Always apply" mode
>>Changes are automatically applied.
>>The setting can be changed from the message box in (1), or from the popup
>>menu on the "More" button.
>>
>>Question: Should the apply button be shown in mode (2)?
>>
>>
>>Pros and Cons:
>>This solution makes clear for new users when changes are applied, and saves
>>them from inadvertent changes.
>>Power users can disable the confirmation. In this mode you are not saved
>>from inadvertent changes in multiple selection, but for the sake of
>>consistency that's it.
>>
>>Anyone who cannot agree with such a solution?
>>
>
>
> Marcel,
>
> Like i said in private mail, i prefert to have the "Mode" setting in digikam
> Setup dialog, for example in Misc page.

I agree.

--
Fabien

_______________________________________________
Digikam-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/digikam-users